Strut Bar install help

[Innov8]

Hello...I need you help with what I suspect is a simple problem BUT I am stuck.

I am installing a used strut bar on my 82 sc and I can't seem to break the nut at the tope of the strut. The strut just spins as I turn the socket. Is there a special tool to hold the strut in place as I torque the nut off? I have turn the tab-washer down so that it is 'unlocked'. Also, just to confirm the strut bar hardware wounts on top of the mounting plates? What torque setting do I use when re-assembling the brace and strut?

Thanks for your help! Patrick



PS. 2 views of the struts as they are now...with the undercoating removed.

[rattlsnak]

You'll have to use an impact, BUT, what kind of strut brace is it? Most of them connect to the allen head bolts, not the strut itself.

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by Innov8

Hello...I need you help with what I suspect is a simple problem BUT I am stuck.

I am installing a used strut bar on my 82 sc and I can't seem to break the nut at the tope of the strut. The strut just spins as I turn the socket. Is there a special tool to hold the strut in place as I torque the nut off? I have turn the tab-washer down so that it is 'unlocked'. Also, just to confirm the strut bar hardware wounts on top of the mounting plates? What torque setting do I use when re-assembling the brace and strut?

Thanks for your help! Patrick



PS. 2 views of the struts as they are now...with the undercoating removed.

Patrick:

Are you sure you need to remove the strut nut? Many of the strut bar designs do not use the stud on the strut as an anchoring point. The reasonis due to the loss of motion of the strut as you corner and the strut assembly deflects. Weltmeister has this design and there are reports of this causing the strut stud to break. There are numerous threads here on a modification to the mount to prevent this unwanted consequence.

You will need to hold the large washer in place with a set of Channel locks while you loosen the nut. The strut top has a keyway and the wahser has a "tit" that fits in the keyway. Sometimes the nut is hard to remove. You may need an impact wrench or a breaker bar.

For difficult to move nuts, I sometimes have luck with using penetrating oil and a rubber mallet or a dead blow hammer to strike the breaker bar. The shock loosens the nut.

[Innov8]

Thanks for the quick replys. I purchased a used Weltmeister strut bar here a few months ago. It didn't come with install instructions but I was reading the project notes from my copy of 101 projects... The book is great but unfortunately, that particular project assumes you have the instructions from Weltmeister. The hardware in th e kit has the same 'tit' that lock into the strut bolt so I assumed that I needed to remove the nut and washer and then install the moounting hardware over the top of the struct and re-inatall the nut with a new locking tab washer (purchased from teh host). I will do a search but if anyone has notes or instructions from Weltmeister for installing their strut bar, that would be ideal. I feel a little in the dark on what I thought would be an easy upgrade.
Thanks again for all the advice and help. Patrick

[grant911s]

Here's a thread that shows some photos & kicks around a few ideas.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/398703-differences-between-elephant-racing-weltmeister-strut-brace-post3835987.html

Hope this helps.

[Innov8]

Thanks Grant. I read through the link and some of the others embeded within. Now I have only 2 questions:

1) When mounting the Weltmeister bracket, does it mount over the top of the existing washer and nut OR do I remove the strut washer (large one) and nut and mount the bracket to the strut tower with the allen bolts and then re-attach the strut to the bracket with the bolt and locking tab-washer? I am kind of foggy on the assembly of an un-modified Weltmeister bracket to the strut (not having Weltmeister instructions).

2) Is there a any consis on the Weltmeister strut? Should it be installed as delivered or modified so that it does not restrict the movement (rotational movement?) of the strut bolt?

Thank you!

[cgarr]

You don't want anything that ties the struts together because they have to move, you tie the body together. otherwise an impact will get the nut off..

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by Innov8

Thanks Grant. I read through the link and some of the others embeded within. Now I have only 2 questions:

1) When mounting the Weltmeister bracket, does it mount over the top of the existing washer and nut OR do I remove the strut washer (large one) and nut and mount the bracket to the strut tower with the allen bolts and then re-attach the strut to the bracket with the bolt and locking tab-washer? I am kind of foggy on the assembly of an un-modified Weltmeister bracket to the strut (not having Weltmeister instructions).

If you use the weltmeister unit "as-is", you remove the existing washer and use the plate as the washer.

2) Is there a any consis on the Weltmeister strut? Should it be installed as delivered or modified so that it does not restrict the movement (rotational movement?) of the strut bolt?

Thank you!

Your money, your choice. FWIW, I removed the center part of my Weltmeister Mount to let the strut move in the camber plate as originally designed.

[Innov8]

Thanks Cgarr and Harry D,

Great answers and advice.

So in your opinions, the WM design is less-ideal because it restricts the strut too much? In the 101 Projects book (which I consult regularly), they don't mention this issue...but is this design mod (drilling out the center of the WM bracket) now considered the "best-practice"? Are there any other opinions on this point?

Also, when I install that modified bracket, I install it over the existing (stock) strut nut and washer? There is enough clearence between the bottom of the mounted bracket and the washer? Does anyone have the spec on the 'ideal' size of the hole saw to make this mod so that?

One last consideration. This is a high milage tub (+200k) and although it hasn't been damaged on the front end, I wanted to add the brace to tighten up the feel of the car which is currently used about 5% DE, 5%AX and the rest is street use. The suspension upgrades are mild...turbo tie-rods and lowers with a bump steer kit). The alignment was done by D. Jacobs for better DE handling but I am not sure what that set-up is. I do hope to increase the AX and DE time but that comes after family and business concerns.

As always, thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience with those of us that are new to the game. Sincerely, Patrick

[Bill Verburg]

The top of the strut must be able to move, anything that resricts that motion will be an issue. On a race car they would use a monoball joint rigidly mounted to the body but w/ thr top of the strut free to circulate.

Either modify what you have(get Dan J to do it for you if you are uncomfortable) or a better option purchase something that mounts to the tower body

This is my 993(the principle is the same as a 911) w/ monoball top mount and the brace mounted to the body

[Innov8]

OK. Thanks again for the additional info. This site is like going to college all over again...I am amazed at the knowledge that is shared here.

I have just read through all of the threads that I could find and I am convinced that I should mod the WM strut brackets as pictured below (photo by 911pcar)...


My questions
1) after I make the "lightening" hole to a size large enough to acept a socket on the strut bolt nut, do I keep the large washer (original set-up) below the WM bracket? I can't quite figure this out in the many photos that I have seen in other posts. If anyone has successfully done this mod and can guide me throuhgh the assembly, I am ready to go (Sherwood?).
2) What is the proper toque setting for the allen head bolts holding the bracket to the tower and the nut on the strut bolt?

Thank you again! Patrick
PS. I plan on documenting this mod and posting the project here so that others can benefit as well. thx.

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by Innov8

OK. Thanks again for the additional info. This site is like going to college all over again...I am amazed at the knowledge that is shared here.

I have just read through all of the threads that I could find and I am convinced that I should mod the WM strut brackets as pictured below (photo by 911pcar)...


My questions
1) after I make the "lightening" hole to a size large enough to acept a socket on the strut bolt nut, do I keep the large washer (original set-up) below the WM bracket? I can't quite figure this out in the many photos that I have seen in other posts. If anyone has successfully done this mod and can guide me throuhgh the assembly, I am ready to go (Sherwood?).
2) What is the proper toque setting for the allen head bolts holding the bracket to the tower and the nut on the strut bolt?

Thank you again! Patrick
PS. I plan on documenting this mod and posting the project here so that others can benefit as well. thx.

I place a washer between the car and the strut mount to allow it to go over the large washer. I left the strut nut alone.

If I am not mistaken, the torque setting is 35 ft lbs but check in you manual. Haynes lists the correct value.

[911pcars]

Originally Posted by Innov8

OK. Thanks again for the additional info. This site is like going to college all over again...I am amazed at the knowledge that is shared here.

I have just read through all of the threads that I could find and I am convinced that I should mod the WM strut brackets as pictured below (photo by 911pcar)...


My questions
1) after I make the "lightening" hole to a size large enough to acept a socket on the strut bolt nut, do I keep the large washer (original set-up) below the WM bracket? I can't quite figure this out in the many photos that I have seen in other posts. If anyone has successfully done this mod and can guide me throuhgh the assembly, I am ready to go (Sherwood?).
2) What is the proper toque setting for the allen head bolts holding the bracket to the tower and the nut on the strut bolt?

Thank you again! Patrick
PS. I plan on documenting this mod and posting the project here so that others can benefit as well. thx.

Patrick,
Yes, reinstall the original large factory washer under the lock washer and nut. The WM mount bracket installs on top. There's probably a torque spec, but I used an impact gun to tighten as there's no convenient way to hold the strut stem if tightened manually.

Likewise the socket head mounting bracket bolts. There's a torque spec. I tightened them with sufficient torque. Use a torque wrench to spec. to confirm it's sufficiently tight.

Sherwood

[Innov8]

Thanks Harry and Sherwood. I am looking for a drill press to 'borrow' now and will post pictures with the results as quickly as I can. I am so happy that I stumbled onto this modification before I installed the brackets... it pays to do your research on this site BEFORE opening the tool box! Patrick

[911pcars]

This is a fairly large hole to create using conventional drill bits. This is a job better suited for a proper cutting tool and milling machine. For a DIY solution, Harbor Freight has an inexpensive carbide hole saw kit containing a variety of sizes, one of which works fine for this project. The hole saw ends up to be a sacrificial tool because the silicon carbide lasts only long enough for 2-3 holes, 1 hole more than needed. Use plenty of cutting oil, a relatively slow cutting speed, a sturdy drill press vise and patience. Deburr the edges with conventional grinding attachments, file, Dremel, wire wheel, etc. Paint or plate to complete the transformation.

Hope this helps,
Sherwood

[Innov8]

OK, I finally am getting back to my task, I measured the impact socket around the 22mm nut and if I cut a 1-3/8" hole in the center of the bracket, I should be OK to mount this strut bar without restricting or over-stressing the strut bolt (as described above).


While measuring the brackets, I thought...others have found cracks (see above post links) in their brackets? So...I look and there they are! Nearly equal length cracks at the bend of the metal on both brackets...on the leading edge side of the bracket. Look for the black arrows I've drawn on each bracket.






OK, instead of tackling this milling project myself, I am off to the local machine shop for repairs and mods to the brackets. I will post pictures when they are finished and I can start the install.

[rusnak]

I think Sherwood has the best modification of the wm strut bar. But I think I'd weld an extra large washer on top for additional strength. I don't think I'd remove as much material as the other mods.

[Innov8]

OK. I have done the mod as discribed above to the WM bracket mounts...PLUS an added fix to (hopfully) fix the cracking. See below.


This is the stripped strut tower after the respray with rattlecan paint...kind of a match to guards red (not really).



Here is the finished bracket mount with the center drilled out to fit my impact wrench socket. Note the additional 'ear' that I had welded into the bracket to help offset the twisting forces that have cracked the bracket in previous photos.



Here is a detail shot of the weld repairing the crack with the extra 'ear' added for longer life!



This is the test fit. I need to purchase grade 8 washers to finish the install.



Another view of the test fit. I really like the 'stock' look of the brackets matching the body color...inspired by the images that I have seen on this site of the factory strut braces in RSRs that are welded directly to the strut towers.

I will post more pictures of the final install later this week. Thanks for all your help and feedback. Patrick

[zl0ca]

What are the chances of removing this plate without messing up your alignment? The PO of the car installed the WM bar, but after reading through the thread I want to make this chance to my unit.

[McLaren-TAG]

Keep the car on the ground, loosen only two of the three bolts at any one time and the alignment will stay without issue.