When to stop sinking money into it

[Meka]

Originally Posted by safe

Yes, sort of.

Why do you spend the money you do on the car?

I'm betting that 90% of the money you spent, and plan on spending, wasn't/isn't really needed to keep it running (from my own personal experience). You could just change oil, pour gas in it and drive it.

So either you spend the money, like most people do on their hobbies, cars or not, or stop spending money and keep driving it.
It's a choice you CAN make.

Yes, sort of? Show me my statement implying I need to stop whining and grow up. Seriously! Again, I simply wanted some advice. I made no complaint of the money spent on the car. This kind of crap really pisses me off! Especially the 911 guru that made the original statement. I usually try to be polite and respectful of all. But you two need to get off your high horse.
And absolutely 90% of the money I spent was not needed.
Let me put this out there. This may be my first 911 but I have been building and restoring vintage Volkswagens sense I was fifteen. Years back I had one of my Ghias featured in a popular VW magazine. I have had a write up in my local paper on a 63 Type 2. of mine. I have entered many of my VW's in shows and even raced some I have built. I know I will now get crap for this. But I am no stranger to "sinking" money or time into cars. Or any other of my hobbies.

[theclaw]

When the hottie soccer mom says, "Coach has a cool car", then its all worth it.

[myfast911]

meka, i'm truly sorry that i upset you so much on this subject. what i said was meant to be in fun, and was not a personal dig against you. i was just kidding, and apparently you did not find it funny. i hope that you will accept my apology.

russell

[Palum6o]

Meka, looks like you answered your own question. This is what we're here for.

[WI wide body]

It really surprises me how so many guys say that they have to throw huge sums of money at their 911's or that they lose lot's of $$$$ on them. Maybe I'm just dumb lucky but that has not been the case with me.

I've probably had 8 or 9 different 911's (along with a new Boxster during a weak moment) and most of them (except for a '96 993 Tip Coupe) were older, high mile cars. I never...repeat never...had a major issue with an engine, clutch, or tranny. Mostly just regular maintenance and very frequent oil changes.

I actually made money on most of them (except for a very nasty 1968 911L) when I finally sold them and surprisingly, the most expensive of the bunch (the '96) was the only one I ever lost significant money on when I sold it...after the market tanked in 2001.

Yes, I did a lot of the little (read that as easy) mechanicals myself along with a lot of interior and cosmetic stuff. But again, nothing even close to some of the horror stories that I seem to read here.

P.S. My current ride is an '86 Euro version Carrera Cab with the wide body option. It has 78K miles and runs great...and I sure hope that I didn't just put a hex on it with this post!!

[Rich Lambert]

Originally Posted by Meka

.....My Question is when is enough. When should you stop sinking money into a 84 911 with nearly 270,000 miles on it....

When you find a longhood for sale that just needs a little freshening up. That cured me of putting any more money into my former '82 SC.

[Meka]

I have never posted a picture of my car. I figure now is good as time as any.

[Meka]

One more

[safe]

Originally Posted by Meka

Yes, sort of? Show me my statement implying I need to stop whining and grow up. Seriously! Again, I simply wanted some advice. I made no complaint of the money spent on the car. This kind of crap really pisses me off! Especially the 911 guru that made the original statement. I usually try to be polite and respectful of all. But you two need to get off your high horse.
And absolutely 90% of the money I spent was not needed.
Let me put this out there. This may be my first 911 but I have been building and restoring vintage Volkswagens sense I was fifteen. Years back I had one of my Ghias featured in a popular VW magazine. I have had a write up in my local paper on a 63 Type 2. of mine. I have entered many of my VW's in shows and even raced some I have built. I know I will now get crap for this. But I am no stranger to "sinking" money or time into cars. Or any other of my hobbies.

I didn't mean to offend you, but it is quite easy.

If you don't have a problem spending huge amounts of money on your car as its your hobie. Well keep doing it if you enjoy it.

If you do have a hard time justifying the money to yourself and has lost that good feeling about it, well just stop!
Maybe you should even consider selling it. Put it away somewhere a few months and see if you miss it.

[Meka]

Last one

[johndglynn]

That looks great, money well spent. I would lose the 6s next and get some H4s

[billybek]

Originally Posted by johndglynn

That looks great, money well spent.

+1.
That is one of the nicest colours on a 911. It shows that you have looked after it well.
This has been a great thread! It is very interesting to hear various opinions.
Personally I think you should keep it and drive the wheels off of it....

[Gunter]

Originally Posted by Gunter

It's not unusual to spend the same amount on repairs as the original purchase price, even with DIY, but yours seems excessive.

Please, elaborate:
Without the engine/transmission rebuild, the PO spent almost $18.000 ??
On what?

You have spent at least another $5000 on this car.
Please, give us some details.

That comes to about $23.000 spent so far.
On what exactly?

On top of that you say that you could do another $5.000 worth of stuff.
Like what?

Having done an engine/transmission rebuild, brakes, shocks, struts, suspension work, and bought bigger Fuch wheels, etc. I'd love to find out what was done to your car for $23.000 (Plus the planned $5.000 = $28.000 total)

Much appreciated.

Nice color for sure but..............No Euro lamps and stock Fuchs wheels.

Please, elaborate where the $23.000 went since it didn't include engine/transmission rebuild.

Many thanks.

[Jay Laifman]

Originally Posted by safe

Put it away somewhere a few months and see if you miss it.

The saddest day with my 356 I sold was the week after I agreed to sell it, but before the buyer paid and picked it up. I saw it every day an couldn't drive it. That was the worst. It was worse than the day he actually drove away down the street.

I still miss the car now and then. I'd love to have a 356 some day again. But, my '73 911 and my Boxster S more than scratch the Porsche itch. In fact, since I finally got my 911 back from Schneider ******** running right after 5 years and 2 other mechanics, I've been having to force myself to not drive the 911 so the Boxster gets some use!

[Meka]

Originally Posted by johndglynn

That looks great, money well spent. I would lose the 6s next and get some H4s

Funny you say that. Awhile back I bought H4s. I had them installed for about a year but decided I liked the look of the stock lights. The H4s are definitely nicer to have at night. I have recently been thinking I would reinstall them.

[Meka]

Originally Posted by Gunter

Nice color for sure but..............No Euro lamps and stock Fuchs wheels.

Please, elaborate where the $23.000 went since it didn't include engine/transmission rebuild.

Many thanks.

Do I detect a bit of skepticism? Off the top of my head I couldn't tell you what all the previous owner spent the money on. I will go through the records tonight and let you know. Most of it was just odds and ends. And he was not one to do any work on the car himself so allot of the cost was in labor. A few things I do remember is OEM steering rack, complete axles/cv joints, L&R door pulls, headliner install. 12X power Recaro seats, new door panels & pockets. The guy was a bit compulsive with upkeep and repairs. But theres much more. Ill let you know. Also I ll make a list of what I have spent. And done to the car.
I kind of feel like I'm being put on the spot here.

[ldortiz]

I agree with widebody. I haven't had any problems with my Carrera (knock on alloys) and there is no way I would put 23k in extras into it but some times I too get a bit paranoid that something wrong will happen to my car any minute because I read so many of these blogs. I need to just relax and enjoy my car.

Meka, I'm a bit confused. Originally I thought your inquiry was dealing with how much to put in to your car to keep it running in top shape. Now you say that 90% of your expenditures were not needed and made by your choice. I think that there is a big difference in spending for maintenance and regular upkeep and spending money to add the myriad of goodies for performance and appearance. I prefer the original stock look. Your car is beautiful and you don't really need all the extras if your concerned about money. This is a question that only you can answer. Granted your car has twice the mileage as mine but I can't begin to see how you spent 23k not counting an engine & tranny rebuild. We can see some of the extras that you added in your photo and again, a great looking car but at the end of the day our vehicles are probably worth the same on today's market. I'll try to post a picture.

Cheers,

Leo
86 Carrera

[84porsche9113.2]

Just thought I'd chime in on this because this thread did resonate with me. I don't need to continue an ongoing discussion but just wanted to share my thoughts since I was in the same boat.

Let me just say that like you I did buy my car for about $11 or $12k and it was in pretty bad shape (cosmetically anyway). The engine was strong but you could tell it hadn't been recently maintained - stuff like shocks, etc. I had it taken down to bare metal and a new paint job, rebuilt the trans myself with different final drive ratio, and basically upgraded all the stuff i could including new clutch, exhaust, headers, bilstiens, poly bushings, mufflers and other stuff. Even experimented with various things like MAF and nitrous and eventually ended up taking some things off and selling it at a slight loss. Even doing the labor myself I figure I must've spent maybe $15 to $20k upgrading various things over 8 years or so.

The car is in no way worth $35 or $40k and I could not get it back if I sold it. But I think the major repairs and upgrades are done, so probably any future maintenance costs from here on out will be minimal. And I'm also done upgrading. Future big expenses may include something like redoing the interior or upholestery but not anytime soon hopefully.

So when all is said and done I think I may end up right around $40k.

Now this is kind of a lot considering a few years back my friend bought a new Audi S4 for around that price, and his car could kick my car's ass. Plus it was new and I don't think there is any way you really can compare a brand new high performance sports car to a 20 year old one. Sure the old one is a classic, but the new one has no rattles or squeaks and the newer technology is so much better in my view.

Still, if I had to do it all over again I still would have done it because part of the fun was doing the work and figuring what upgrades I want and "customizing" the car the way I wanted.

If I spent $40k on a brand new car it would only be an equal choice IF I kept it bone stock and decided not to do any upgrades. On the other hand, if I got the DIY itch and wanted to upgrade I could see where I could easily spend another $5 to $10 k and it would be more like a $50k car and not a $40k car.

Obviously if you are going for a "project" car you can tinker with it would seem an older car is more affordable. But in the end if you spend as much as you could have on a faster, better performing and more stylish new car, then it would seem foolish.

The way I look at it, my insurance premium is a lot lower than a new car so at least I'm saving there. And although this may not apply to everyone, my car is a weekend car and not a daily driver so I need to spend the least amount of $ on it. Wouldn't make sense to buy a $40k new car and just keep it in the garage all week.

**I can justify the $ spent on the porsche by the fact that IF I keep it for life or at least a very very long time then it will be $ well spent. Take $40k and divide it over 30 or even 40 years and that's like $1k a year. But if I knew I was going to sell it prematurely it would be a total waste of money in my view. Plus it makes sense to do so (keeping a long time) as far as insurance premiums since on very old cars the costs is minimal compared to a new one. So you don't feel as much as a hit just keeping it in the garage for a weekend drive.

Now I think if this car was a daily driver then that's when I would probably chooose new $40k sports car over an older project car that ends up costing the same amount, because I would think the older car would tend to break down more frequently and the maintenace costs (and time) required to maintain it might not be worth it. I would also not want the added expense and inconvenience (such as a rental car) due to down time of my daily driver. In that case, I'd probalby want a trouble free new car for the same amount of $ that I wasn't worried about having to fix every now and then. And again, when you are paying big bucks for insurance then it makes sense to drive the car as much as you can and get the most out of it, as in a daily driver.

I also think the diff here between Meka and me and someone like Leo is maybe we got our cars for "dirt cheap" with the intent on "upgrading' it (vs. maintaining) and had to do a lot more work. In other words, maybe if we spent $20k or so on a reasonably good condition car and kept it stock, the maintenance costs would be minimal. Plus, I guess there are 2 schools of thought here regarding older cars. Some think that just keeping a car stock is the best way to go and others want to squeeze every ounce of performance they can. I'm of the latter school of thought, and that's where it can get expensive and where companies like pelican and automotion make their $$. So I think Leo is right because if you just buy an older car and just "maintain" it as opposed to "upgrading" it, it iis probably not as expensive. Only when you start getting into the "performance' upgrades then probably it is ALWYAS more economical to buy a new OEM performance car than trying to upgrade an older one to match that performance. For example when you look at HP/per dollar upgrdae, you could spend $2000 on an aftermarket porsche exhaust system just to get an additional 10 or 15 hp (which is one of the better cost per hp upgrades), but still is probably expensive considering that some new turbo cars make way more HP that is included in the cost of the new car with no additional expense.

In either case, I think if your intent is to keep the car for life or a very long time, then you can ALWAYS justify spending an irrational mount of $ restoring the car to some extent. Personaly I think it would be foolish to buy and sell a car (like the person who posted about the car that $60k was put in and selling it for $20k). That guy probalby won't even be able to get $20.... To me that really is like throwing $40k down the drain. And if you suppose he owned the car maybe 5 years or so? That's like throwing away $8k a year. On the other hand if he kept it for life then it would not be such a bad deal. But just my .02 cents.

Bottom line: I think if you want ultimate performance, and especially for a daily driver, better to go OEM new than sink $60k into a car that is only worth $20k. That's like wanting a "new" house and buying used and trying to make it look like new. Will never be good as new and you probably will spend the same if not more trying to do so. If just want a classic old car and want to keep it stock, it can be quite economical, even for a daily driver. In my case I have a car I upgraded/customized for performance by spending irrational amounts of $ on it, but I still justify it in my mind by the simple fact that I plan to keep it for a long time and also by keeping it a weekend car, maintanence costs like insurance are lower and it probably won't break down as much as a daily driver would and may last over a longer period of time.

[Meka]

Originally Posted by ldortiz

I agree with widebody. I haven't had any problems with my Carrera (knock on alloys) and there is no way I would put 23k in extras into it but some times I too get a bit paranoid that something wrong will happen to my car any minute because I read so many of these blogs. I need to just relax and enjoy my car.

Meka, I'm a bit confused. Originally I thought your inquiry was dealing with how much to put in to your car to keep it running in top shape. Now you say that 90% of your expenditures were not needed and made by your choice. I think that there is a big difference in spending for maintenance and regular upkeep and spending money to add the myriad of goodies for performance and appearance. I prefer the original stock look. Your car is beautiful and you don't really need all the extras if your concerned about money. This is a question that only you can answer. Granted your car has twice the mileage as mine but I can't begin to see how you spent 23k not counting an engine & tranny rebuild. We can see some of the extras that you added in your photo and again, a great looking car but at the end of the day our vehicles are probably worth the same on today's market. I'll try to post a picture.

Cheers,

Leo
86 Carrera

Perhaps I didnt explain some things very well in my origanal post. The money I have spent , mostly was not just to keep it on the road. I could have been driving it with minimum money spent. But if it is not right I tend to replace or fix it. As an example, I had distributer that had a strange noise. My mechanic said dont worry about it. So I replaced it. I spent about $1200 tracking down a minor oil leak that was really not a problem. Most the expenditures were absoultly by choise. I have a cruise control sticker on order from Germany because mine has a scratch on it. My post was not meant to be a complaint about the car being a problem or having problems. I think my point was more about how concerned should I be about my 911 being perfect. And should I move away from stock and move more toards performance upgrades. Suspension and what not. With the amount of miles.
If I came accross as being upset that I was having do dump money into my car, that absolutly was not my intension.

[bhyde]

Originally Posted by Meka

Last one

Clearly a complete waste of money. Terrible color combo and a compete hack on the front end. What were you thinking when you bought this heap? I'm afraid I'm going to have to take it off your hands.