Insurance Low Balling!!!

[BeauBlues]

Hi there. Some of you all may remember the thread I posted a little while ago about my accident in my '84 carrera. Car is gone and I broke my leg

This car was very cherished by me and I did a number of upgrades to it. I converted it to accept a G50 transmission, custom valved bilsteins on all four corners, 23mm torsions up front, rebel racing coilovers in the rear, new bushings, Thicker sway bars, SW chip, added front and rear spoiler. Oh and I recently refreshed the brakes.

All in all the car was wonderful to drive and very mechanically sound even with 269k miles. The only faults I can point out are the seats were getting weathered, the targa top needed new webbing, and a few rock chips on the front end.

When I bought the car in 2003, it was completely stock, with no tail or front spoiler and the transmission had a broken 2nd gear. I bought it for $10.5k. Now, after all that hard work, blood sweat and tears and money, the insurance offers me......$12,540.45. I don't think I could have gotten any bigger slap in the face then that offer.

I am already handling this through an attorney due to that I have sustained personal injuries. But seriously, tell me I'm not crazy, my car is worth MUCH more than that bogus offer. Right?

Heres a couple old pictures of what she used to look like.

[WolfeMacleod]

Find a good, hard wall.

Read this: Am I Crazy? (SC Valuation)

Then bang your head against that wall. Real hard.

[RWebb]

Ins. Co.s always low ball you -- your attorney is the "hired gun" who is there to protect you. He will want you to gather data to build your case up for higher value.

===============================

Instead of the above, do the following:

Find a good, hard wall.

Then tell your attorney to grab the Insurance Co. Adjuster and bang his head against that wall. REAL hard.

Repeat until wall crumbles. Then find another wall. Tighten grip on Adjuster's head. Repeat.

[vesnyder]

All the insurance coverage I've had on my "old" cars have had a pre-negotiated stated value. The intent being to avoid having to negotiate the value after the car is totaled. The cost of insurance is based on the value. I thougt all vintage car insurance was handled this way? Otherwise it is Blue Book.

[jac1976]

My .02. Totaled a vehicle in 2005 and went through the same crap.
1. Make sure they have all of the information correct about your vehicle from the start. My vehicle was a 2003 Tahoe Z71 4wd. When they did the initial estimate they based it on the base LS trim level. Not a problem, right? Not until I disputed and they only adjusted their initial estimate based on a handful of comparable vehicles that match the specifications of my vehicle. Instead of starting from square one with the correct information and doing the more comprehensive and extensive evaluation, they simply found a few 2003 Tahoes on used lots with more miles and extrapolated from there.
2. Do the work yourself. No one values your car as much as you. You fill it up, change the oil, wash it, wax it, dry it with a chamois, wipe down the interior with a cloth baby diaper, and park at the periphery of public lots where no one else will ding your door. Get on the internet and get as many ads for similar vehicles as you can find. Find what similar vehicles have actually sold for, not just what was asked. Print them out. Document all of your improvements. Get Blue Book and NADA estimates.
3. Understand the system. No matter what you spent on improvements, the Actual Cash Value (ACV) of your vehicle is, unfortunately, not the sum of its parts. Moreover, in contrast to a 2003 Tahoe, most Porsches, especially earlier models have had a number of upgrades and modifications that make it difficult to find true comparisons. Again, this hurts you the Porsche owner who is trying to collect from his insurance company.

I didn't get what I thought my vehicle was worth, but I got pretty close and due only to the fact that I did all the work. I understand your frustration, especially with a vehicle that is uniquely yours and not as easy to replace as a ubiquitous Tahoe, but stay vigilant.

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by vesnyder

All the insurance coverage I've had on my "old" cars have had a pre-negotiated stated value.

Point of Information: There is a difference between an agreed or stated value versus a guaranteed value. A stated value policy does NOT guarantee you will get that much. It only indicates that if could be worth up to that much.

[FenderGuy]

Originally Posted by jac1976

My .02. Totaled a vehicle in 2005 and went through the same crap.
1. Make sure they have all of the information correct about your vehicle from the start. My vehicle was a 2003 Tahoe Z71 4wd. When they did the initial estimate they based it on the base LS trim level. Not a problem, right? Not until I disputed and they only adjusted their initial estimate based on a handful of comparable vehicles that match the specifications of my vehicle. Instead of starting from square one with the correct information and doing the more comprehensive and extensive evaluation, they simply found a few 2003 Tahoes on used lots with more miles and extrapolated from there.
2. Do the work yourself. No one values your car as much as you. You fill it up, change the oil, wash it, wax it, dry it with a chamois, wipe down the interior with a cloth baby diaper, and park at the periphery of public lots where no one else will ding your door. Get on the internet and get as many ads for similar vehicles as you can find. Find what similar vehicles have actually sold for, not just what was asked. Print them out. Document all of your improvements. Get Blue Book and NADA estimates.
3. Understand the system. No matter what you spent on improvements, the Actual Cash Value (ACV) of your vehicle is, unfortunately, not the sum of its parts. Moreover, in contrast to a 2003 Tahoe, most Porsches, especially earlier models have had a number of upgrades and modifications that make it difficult to find true comparisons. Again, this hurts you the Porsche owner who is trying to collect from his insurance company.

I didn't get what I thought my vehicle was worth, but I got pretty close and due only to the fact that I did all the work. I understand your frustration, especially with a vehicle that is uniquely yours and not as easy to replace as a ubiquitous Tahoe, but stay vigilant.

1, I would get real sale prices around your area and a PCA estimate , helped in my case

3. In my case they wanted documents proving any updates to the car in the stereo department, full docs can help out


I had to deal with this recently with a break in my car, make sure you document all dealings with the adjuster...if all fails get the state insurance dept involved consumer affairs can help you

[cgarr]

$12,540.45 and you keep the car! Tell them its a deal!

[MattAlpha]

Did they offer you a buy back price for your 911? Looking at the pics from your original post, it seems like it could be salvaged with a lot of work on your part and a front end from a roller.

Good luck,
Matt

[Christien]

Not sure of elsewhere, but here in Ontario they call it a form 19A, agreed value. We have a 19 and a 19A - 19 is max value, 19A is agreed value, and it's a crucial difference. I found out after several years of driving that I only had a 19, even though my broker told me I had a 19A. If the car were stolen or written off, I would be paid their determination of its value, up to the appraised value at max. I was furious and found a new broker. I now have a proper 19A agreed value, so if it's stolen or written off, I get the number on the page less deductible, no questions asked. I just need to get my appraisal updated so the number reflects reality (it's at 13K now, my car is probably worth closer to 20).

edit: oops, forgot: you CAN fight with the insurance company and get them to up their price. As stated above, go in well armed with as much info about the car's value as possible. Find as many similar cars with similar (major) upgrades, make sure you've got documentation for your upgrades, and go from there. They would've just looked for 84 targas with similar mileage, likely only found 1 or 2, and made an estimate based on that.

[dtw]

There was a clean early 3.2 Carrera here in town. 300k on the clock, clean chassis, 10k on a $14k engine rebuild, G50 conversion, and it was a coupe. It was on sale here for about a year without selling. Finally sold for $10k.

I'd say you made out like a bandit to be honest. Take the money and run. All your sweat equity and updates aren't worth dick, unfortunately.

[MOMO3.2]

BeauBlues:

I hope your leg is healing well and you are not experiencing too much pain or discomfort.

Perhaps you should get the PCA or POC to write estimated values for you. You can probably use Excellence as a reference too.

Did you have an agreed value with your insurance company?

Honestly, I would take $12,500 and demand the car. That would be a great deal. Then, you can find a car to replace yours and use any parts off your old car to upgrade/improve your new car. Finally sell off parts to bank some solid cash (engine, trans, interior, wing, wheels, rear suspension, etc...).

Good luck with things.

Mike

[Wayne 962]

Have your attorney ask for $15.5K and you keep the car. They probably think that the car is worthless right now...

-Wayne

[Allen_70S]

As a point of reference, the August 2008 "Old Cars Price Guide" lists a 1984 911 Targa in average (#3) condition as being worth $12,600. This is probably where they got their number. Most of OCPG Porsche values havn't been updated in the last 5 years, including the early S cars, which (Per Bruce Anderson) have skyrocketed in value. Do your homework and confront them with facts.

Al

[ChrisBennet]

When i totalled my '86 back in 2003 I got fair market value and the car - but it took me 1.5yrs and a lawyer. Take the money if they'll give you the car.

I'm just as bad as the next guy when it comes to this stuff but I guess everyone needs to find out what they are actually insured for and do something about it now if they don't like what they discover. One shouldn't expect to pay insurance rates based on a $10K car value if they expect to collect $20K for their upgraded car for example.
-Chris
-Chris

[cashflyer]

A 3.2 coupe locally went for $16 recently, after the seller had it on the market for nearly a year. I know the car and the owner - the car was meticulously maintained and had well under 200k on the odometer. It was beautiful.

It's all about your market as to what it's worth to the buyer - and has nothing at all to do with what it's worth to the seller.


Por-sha: Don't lump stated value with agreed value. My agreed policy is just that. They agreed on the value, I pay premiums based on that agreed value, and in the event of a total loss, they pay that agreed value. I have it in writing.

Stated value is meaningless. It means that I stated to them what my car was worth. In the event of a total loss, they will state to me what it is worth.

[cgarr]

Do you have the car now? If so put it back to the way it was when you purchased it, you keep all the upgrades unless they want to pay for them!

[yelcab1]

Personally, I don't believe your 84 carrera is worth much more than that. Conversions don't add value to the car on the market. Sorry, I would just take it and not pay anymore to the lawyer.

[Nine9six]

Originally Posted by cgarr

Do you have the car now? If so put it back to the way it was when you purchased it, you keep all the upgrades unless they want to pay for them!

I too went round and round with the Ins co.....
Since they did not want to give me what I had in upgrades (they had the car in an impound yard - Totaled) they allowed me to remove the upgrades and replace with stock items.
Took my SS Fabspeed, momo steering wheel, the 7 & 9x16 fuchs, tool kit, tire compressor, and mats. Replaced items with OEM trash that I picked up for a song, or not at all.
The ins co did make me take the car off the lot due to legal ramifications in case it fell off the jacks on top of me
P.S. By the time you pay for the rat ba$tard atty. any additional money goes to him/her. Where's the gain in that?

[samsnead]

I went through a total loss, they dont care about upgrades, to them its an 84 carrera.

Go get an independant appraisal, if you dig your heels in they will split the difference.

Good luck