A "while I'm there" DIY A/C question

[rbuswell]

There are some excellent threads on improved A/C on Pelican but I think this question is a little different. I have the engine out of my car and I'm thinking that I should remove the A/C hoses and perhaps be prepared for rebuilding the A/C system someday. My question is how do I evacuate the A/C system since the car is immobile so I can remove hoses and get it ready to rebuild? I know that a pump and tank is in the equation but I wanted more detail. Thanks for your help.

[GH85Carrera]

The only way I can think of is to use a recovery tank and vacuum pump. It is against the law to just vent the system to the atmosphere. You did not mention what type of refrigerant you have. If it is the original R-12 you may well be able to find some A/C shop willing to bring over their equipment if they can keep the refrigerant. Changing the hoses with the engine in place is not that bad of a job. I would think it would be easier with the engine out however.

[kuehl]

Most refrigerant recovery machines are not mobile in the sense of tossing it in the trunk or back of a pickup truck and driving over to your house. However, there some portable units out there, such as a McMaster Carr PN 18035K6, but you would also need a recovery bottle which adds to the cost and frankly the setup is not worth the investment for your situation.

GH85 mentioned a negotiation with your local repair shop to bring their machine over; that's an option, or, if you had AAA (not the retired consumption group) you 'could' have the vehicle flat bed'd to your local shop and have the refrigerant recovered; and naturally have it moved back. Its all a matter of cost.

R&R of the ac hoses in the engine compartment, in most cases, happens with the engine in the car, however while you got the 6pack out of the box you might as well clean house and do the hoses then.

[3.2 CAB]

To begin, do you have any idea of what type of refrigerant is in your A/C system?

If you have a friend that has a vacuum pump, they may also have 2 or 3 empty jugs, for the type of refrigerant that is in your cars system. They could run a vacuum on the empty jugs for you, and let you take them home, or where ever the car is located and then all you would have to do is then connect one of the tanks to your A/C system, and let the vacuum that the jug is under, draw the refrigerant into the jug. Repeat as needed with the other jugs. This is NOT a perfect or ideal set-up to use, but it will work to evacuate your system of whatever refrigerant is in it. You could then take the jugs back to your friends place, and let them run it into their recovery system. Most people that have recovery systems need to verify just what type of refrigerant it is, before they take a chance and contaminate their R12 with 134A, or other types of mismatched refrigerants. Heck, it may even have freeze12, or some other questionable product that would not be wanted to be mixed.

As I stated, this process is NOT an ideal method, but will work fairly well, if, you have access to the small amount of equipment needed. Good luck!! Tony.

[rbuswell]

I've been in some work related diversions over the last couple days and didn't get to respond until now. One detail I noticed that I left off my first post was that the A/C now blows hot and has for some time so I doubt that there's much refrigerant in it now.

To GH85: I've tried to find a mobile service but the only one in the phonebook appears to be out of business. I'm pretty sure it's R-12 but I'm not absolutely sure. I bought the car out of state and I may be able to call the shop in South Dakota but I don't really know if I'd trust their records if they still have any from 4 or 5 years ago. I think they left some kind of tag on the system but I don't recall if it had details of what was in the system. I'll look when I get home.

To Kuehl: We do have AAA but I'm not sure if we have any tows left. We've had a rash of other family cars towed lately so I may be tapped out. I was hoping that the equipment was either available and was reasonable in price to DIY (just to get the system evacuated) since I intend to take it all apart and put in new.

To 3.2: This option is intriquing. Maybe a Pelican in the Denver area has the equipment and can be of assistance. Anyone out there in Pelicanland that can help a needy Pelican out?

[rbuswell]

Just to update, it is R134A refrigerant according to the tag on the car. As I mentioned it blows hot and it was last worked on in May 2005.

[Tigerrat]

Considering its blowing hot do you have a guage to put on it and see there is really any gas in there? The experts on here might could give a guesstimate based on pressure. I think mine shows 60-70 lbs pressure static when fully charged. Also, other than pulling the two hoses up by the shocks having the engine out doesn't do much for you. Since I've done this a couple of times I don't see it as a big deal. Tape on a semi-flexible leader and come up from the bottom. I think I used a piece of funny-pipe like you use for sprinkler systems. A little of your favorite soap helps too. Good luck, Ken

[DannyP]

Push the schrader valve in a little and see if any refrigerant comes out, if it's not blowing cold, it is doubtful there is much in there. Seal the components left in the car, and make sure you get it sucked down real well before recharging. I know you're not supposed to vent it, but r-134 is supposed to be enviro friendly.

[Scott R]

I have a mobile recovery machine, and the ability to store your 134, also is a vacuum pump as well. I'm in Centennial south area if you want to borrow it.

[rbuswell]

Originally Posted by Scott R

I have a mobile recovery machine, and the ability to store your 134, also is a vacuum pump as well. I'm in Centennial south area if you want to borrow it.

Scott, what great news. My office is in the Meridian area so I'm sure I could drop by if you don't mind. My email is roger@rogerbuswell.com if you'd like to converse that way or to share schedules and location.

[rbuswell]

Originally Posted by DannyP

Push the schrader valve in a little and see if any refrigerant comes out, if it's not blowing cold, it is doubtful there is much in there. Seal the components left in the car, and make sure you get it sucked down real well before recharging. I know you're not supposed to vent it, but r-134 is supposed to be enviro friendly.

DannyP:

Assuming this is the Schrader Valve with the blue cap, all it did was give a little air (maybe a second at the most) and was very quiet coming out, then nothing. I assume that means that there's no pressure in the system. Any comments?

[GH85Carrera]

If there is no pressure at all that means you have a BAD leak. The good news is you have no refrigerant to recover. Try the other valve under the silver cover. If nothing comes out you have no refrigerant left. That is a good news / bad news thing. The good news is no recovery is needed. The bad news is you have a major leak. Your receiver / dryer is toast. If you plan to replace all the hoses now is the time. You should flush any condenser you plan to keep. Now is the time to upgrade the system "while you are in there" What the heck it is only money.

[bob deluke]

the system is out of gas, get rid of all that a/c junk including the compressor, barrier hoses, clamps, receiver/dryer, condenser, evap coil, txv valve and associated plumbing. All dead weight on the car. Open the windows and enjoy the engine noise....

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by bob deluke

the system is out of gas, get rid of all that a/c junk including the compressor, barrier hoses, clamps, receiver/dryer, condenser, evap coil, txv valve and associated plumbing. All dead weight on the car. Open the windows and enjoy the engine noise....

And sweat so much your eyes sting from the sweat dripping off your forehead, and you ruin the leather seats with sweat stains. It is 105 right now. In some parts of this great country no A/C is just not a smart option.

[rbuswell]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

If there is no pressure at all that means you have a BAD leak. The good news is you have no refrigerant to recover. Try the other valve under the silver cover. If nothing comes out you have no refrigerant left. That is a good news / bad news thing. The good news is no recovery is needed. The bad news is you have a major leak. Your receiver / dryer is toast. If you plan to replace all the hoses now is the time. You should flush any condenser you plan to keep. Now is the time to upgrade the system "while you are in there" What the heck it is only money.

Originally Posted by bob deluke

the system is out of gas, get rid of all that a/c junk including the compressor, barrier hoses, clamps, receiver/dryer, condenser, evap coil, txv valve and associated plumbing. All dead weight on the car. Open the windows and enjoy the engine noise....

Although the performance difference with no A/C is tempting, we just set a new record for consecutive 90+ degree days so I don't see any way around having A/C living here. I assumed that I'd be doing all new A/C but not 'til next year. Based on all the excellent A/C threads on PP, it looks like there is very little of the factory A/C that I would keep; maybe the deck lid condensor. I was most concerned about any danger and enviro impact of opening valves and the like. It seemed to make sense to take out all the old stuff that won't be kept (particularly the non-barrier hoses) while the car is already apart.

BTW, ignorant question here but how does the valve under the silver cover work? Do I turn it or push it in?

[3.2 CAB]

If it is what I think you are asking about, it is a valve that basically turns on or off, the schrader fitting on that port. It does turn to open and close. There should be a squared end on the valve that is about 1/4" square, to allow a wrench or crescent wrench to be used to open or close the valve port. If it is not opened, you will not be able to check the pressures on that particular port. It has been a long time since I have seen that particular valve set-up, most of the time that I saw it being used was on a York, (big box type compressor) from various car manufacturers that used them. The valve is somewhat like a water faucet in design. Good luck!! Tony.

[rbuswell]

Originally Posted by 3.2 CAB

If it is what I think you are asking about, it is a valve that basically turns on or off, the schrader fitting on that port. It does turn to open and close. There should be a squared end on the valve that is about 1/4" square, to allow a wrench or crescent wrench to be used to open or close the valve port. If it is not opened, you will not be able to check the pressures on that particular port. It has been a long time since I have seen that particular valve set-up, most of the time that I saw it being used was on a York, (big box type compressor) from various car manufacturers that used them. The valve is somewhat like a water faucet in design. Good luck!! Tony.

Yes it's a York and it looks like the description you've given. If the system is pretty much empty, if I open this valve would it also let off almost nothing and if so would I be able to then dismantle the system? Here's a pic:

[bob deluke]

In refrigeration parlance, it's called a "king" valve. When backseated, (counterclockwise) it open the port to the compressor. This is the position it should be in when the system is fully functional, with a sealed cap on it. When slightly "cracked" (clockwise) off the seat, you can read pressure through a gauge set. When fully front seated (clockwise till it stops), it opens the line set to compressor for evacuation using a gauge set and 1.5 to 3 C.F.M. vacuum pump. You can buy a 4-way valve wrench at any auto supply or refrigeration wholesaler. Don't use a cresent wrench as it will eventually round off the square corners of the valve stem and then you end up using a vise grip to close/open the valve. This is a hackers tool...very unprofessional...

[rbuswell]

There was almost no pressure in the system when I opened the King valve and then loosened the fittings. That stuff was toast. I've been able to successfully remove the compressor and have since spent yesterday and some of today "deleting" the old A/C hardware. It's gone suprisingly well so far. Thanks all for your helps gents.