My PMO ITB Project

[jkh2cpu]

Subscribed.

[CruiseControl]

Trog: A little heads up with my experence in installation of the PMO ITBs on a '86 3.2 earlier this year

When ordering the ITB's I was questioned as to A/C being fitted. Answer YES.
Don't know what the difference would have been had I answered NO.
On fitting the right side air filter, it fouls the A/C condensor (above Cyl#4), and the A/C compressor is about 20mm too long fouling with the linkage at #4.
Solution was to remove the A/C condensor (still to fit some other condensor into the rear wing) and to use the shorter compressor from a 964 (Denso 10PA15C)
The left side air filter assembly also fouled the rear windscreen wiper motor (a very simple solution here)
The right side fuel rail rear fitting can not be used if A/C compressor is to remain. Added (welded) a fitting to both fuel rails just back from the ends. The sensor you see in the above photo on the LS rail is fuel pressure. Fuel temp is at the new regulator/return line. - previous fuel accumulator has gone.

I would suggest that if the vehicle is subject to higher levels of G forces effecting oil tank surge that a catch tank and vent / drain be fitted for the oil breathing system. Personally not happy with the breathing system supplied with the PMO kit.

The manifold to head "special nuts" 8mm nuts with 12mm spanner. The nut on the inner side of #4 port is all but impossible for any spanner type even a special.

I found the balancing of left and right side throttle benefited with a wide band O2 in each side. Using the recommended method still left a reasonable variance in A/F ratio between the sides when coming off throttle especially under greater vacuum.

The throttle position for mapping is a hugh change from the single throttle body. For example cruising at 100kM/Hr (62MPH) with the single throttle body was at a 22% position, where as the ITBs are now 5% open for the same speed/load. Hence mapping for fuel and ignition relative to throttle position is very different, now using fine resolution at lower throttle opening levels (e.g. 0, 1.5, 3.0, 6.5, 9.5, 12.5,15.5, 19, 22.5, 27, 32, 38, 45, 52, 60, 71, 84, 100). Prior to the ITB install the manifold vacuum tracked the throttle position. Now with the ITB's, atmospheric pressure in the intake can be achieved with 25% throttle at 4000rpm.

The vacuum manifold in the PMO kit works well with no pulsing.
Idle is great at 850rpm, (finish injector timing at 320deg BTDC for 0 throttle and idle speed)

Appreciate if you could detail the fitting of the Clewett cam sensor (near cyl#3) install with the engine in situ. I am presently running a sensor of the drive end of the left cam, and suspect that sensor to have an occassional problem. Have the Clewett cam sensor kit and would like to install with out engine removal.

Using the OEM head temp sensor in #3 as engine temp for cold start (and data)

Trog: we are all waiting your next report.

Paul

[Larry_Ratcliff]

Sweet! I have thought about running those on my 74. I am really curious to see the final outcome.

[Trog]

Originally Posted by CruiseControl

Trog: A little heads up with my experence in installation of the PMO ITBs on a '86 3.2 earlier this year

When ordering the ITB's I was questioned as to A/C being fitted. Answer YES.
Don't know what the difference would have been had I answered NO.
On fitting the right side air filter, it fouls the A/C condensor (above Cyl#4), and the A/C compressor is about 20mm too long fouling with the linkage at #4.
Solution was to remove the A/C condensor (still to fit some other condensor into the rear wing) and to use the shorter compressor from a 964 (Denso 10PA15C)
The left side air filter assembly also fouled the rear windscreen wiper motor (a very simple solution here)
The right side fuel rail rear fitting can not be used if A/C compressor is to remain. Added (welded) a fitting to both fuel rails just back from the ends. The sensor you see in the above photo on the LS rail is fuel pressure. Fuel temp is at the new regulator/return line. - previous fuel accumulator has gone.

I would suggest that if the vehicle is subject to higher levels of G forces effecting oil tank surge that a catch tank and vent / drain be fitted for the oil breathing system. Personally not happy with the breathing system supplied with the PMO kit.

The manifold to head "special nuts" 8mm nuts with 12mm spanner. The nut on the inner side of #4 port is all but impossible for any spanner type even a special.

I found the balancing of left and right side throttle benefited with a wide band O2 in each side. Using the recommended method still left a reasonable variance in A/F ratio between the sides when coming off throttle especially under greater vacuum.

The throttle position for mapping is a hugh change from the single throttle body. For example cruising at 100kM/Hr (62MPH) with the single throttle body was at a 22% position, where as the ITBs are now 5% open for the same speed/load. Hence mapping for fuel and ignition relative to throttle position is very different, now using fine resolution at lower throttle opening levels (e.g. 0, 1.5, 3.0, 6.5, 9.5, 12.5,15.5, 19, 22.5, 27, 32, 38, 45, 52, 60, 71, 84, 100). Prior to the ITB install the manifold vacuum tracked the throttle position. Now with the ITB's, atmospheric pressure in the intake can be achieved with 25% throttle at 4000rpm.

The vacuum manifold in the PMO kit works well with no pulsing.
Idle is great at 850rpm, (finish injector timing at 320deg BTDC for 0 throttle and idle speed)

Appreciate if you could detail the fitting of the Clewett cam sensor (near cyl#3) install with the engine in situ. I am presently running a sensor of the drive end of the left cam, and suspect that sensor to have an occassional problem. Have the Clewett cam sensor kit and would like to install with out engine removal.

Using the OEM head temp sensor in #3 as engine temp for cold start (and data)

Trog: we are all waiting your next report.

Paul

Paul,

Thanks for the very informative heads-up. In respect to fitment clashes, I've removed my AC compressor, bracket and condenser. In addition, I've backdated my heating system and have removed the blower. With hope, there won’t be any fitment issues.

Can you detail your oil "catch-tank" solution. I've you fabbed something up, pics would be helpful.

Are you monitoring/recording fuel pressure? Is this useful?

My next task will be to install the Clewett cam-sensor in-situ. I've scheduled that task for Sept 14th. I'll be sure to document the process in detail.

I can see that your tuning experience will be an invaluable asset. Great to have you on the forum.

Rgs,

Trog

Pic of current engine bay configuration:

[shahram]

Very nice, great project.
Subd.

[goldsc78258]

subscribed

[dfink]

This is gonna be great. Mine just showed up today and the pictures don't do it justice. I however have to wait a few more weeks untill the heads and P/Cs are completed. So please document well because the life you save may be mine

[Trog]

Played a bit more with the TECgt software... I can confirm that the O2 sensor can be configured on the basis of engine RPM and engine temperature. Meaning, the closed-loop O2 control will be disabled until which time a user set RPM and engine temperature are established.

Excellent!

[Trog]

After a week's hiatus, it’s time to get back to work. Today's task is to install the cam sensor. This is by far, the most time consuming and frustrating task.

To begin, you need to gain access to rear of the engine on the driver’s side. Seems simple enough, but to get to the cam, you’re going to have to remove the rear tin.

Here's a step-by-step procedure:

1. Raise the rear of the car high enough to get you and your beer gut well under the belly of the beast. Here’s a pic of the target area.




2. Remove the driver's side exhaust header. No need to remove the muffler.

3. There are a number of fasteners that hold the rear tin in place. Most can be reached from under the vehicle, however there are two which are located just behind the drivers side intake manifold. I was hoping to keep the car on the road for another month or two, but I also have an unbridled desire to make some progress with the ITB installation. So I bit the bullet and removed the intake. Here’s a pic of the engine bay.




4. My ultimate goal is to complete the ITB installation in a manner that will easily allow me to restore the vehicle without too much difficultly, so I took lots of pictures of the original installation. At this point, you’ll want to remove the speed and reference sensors. Be sure to label them in respect to their original orientation for future reference (you never know). Now’s a good time to replace your CHTS. The TECgt can accommodate the factory CTHS, so there’s no need to use the sensor that comes with the kit. Matter of fact, the TECgt connector will fit directly to the factory CHTS. With the speed and reference sensors removed, and the CHTS grommets pulled, the rear tin should slide right out. Here’s what it should look like:




5. Figure on spending about 6-hours to get to this point. Of course if you have rusty fasteners, plan on more time. I now have to remove the cam-end plug, drill and tap a M5-0.8 hole and install the Hall-effect sensor. That task will have to wait for next week. In the interim, if anyone has a good method for removing the cam-end plug in situ, I would like to hear how you did it. I’m figuring I’ll have to design some sort of puller?

6. With the intake removed, now’s a good time to check for clashes. Place your ITB’s on the heads, and gently close the lid. Some have had issues with the AC. I can't be of much help as I've since removed my AC system in it’s entirety.



Next weekend, I'll detail my report on the hall-effect sensor installation.

Oh, for your records, the Mahle fuel filter has a 14mm opening. You'll need this bit of info when you start designing your fuel delivery lines.

[dfink]

Is there a reason that you removed the entire fitting from the fuel filter instead of just attaching to the existing fitting. And dang-it put some dirt on that engine. Mine is out for rebuild and doesn't look that good. Have the parts but no engine to sit them on.

[Dennis Kalma]

..you know for 6 hours of work I would have just dropped the engine. I can drop mine in about 2 hours. Makes a lot easier to work on and you get to clean it up easily at the same time....

Dennis

[Trog]

Originally Posted by dfink

Is there a reason that you removed the entire fitting from the fuel filter instead of just attaching to the existing fitting. And dang-it put some dirt on that engine. Mine is out for rebuild and doesn't look that good. Have the parts but no engine to sit them on.

I'll be using "AN" type fittings for the fuel system. The Mahle filter is fitted with a metric fastener. I plan to use a 14mm metric to AN-6 connector in place of the Mahle fitting. It makes for one less potential leak source.

I'll see what I can do about the lack of dirt. Best of luck with your rebuild.

[CruiseControl]

Trog, Thanks for the update and detail.
I am also interested in the method of the end cam cover removal and sensor fitting

Please keep it coming
Paul

[silverc4s]

Trog,
Thanks for all the extra work putting this up for everyone. (subscribing)...

[shbop]

signing-up.

[TimT]

if anyone has a good method for removing the cam-end plug in situ

Try a slide hammer, thread a sheet metal screw into the cap, then attach the slide hammer, smack smack smack, and the plug should be out.

[beepbeep]

Nice project! I'm going to follow it from now on!

One question:

...do you have to use cam sensor and go trough whole process of installing a cam pickup? Can't you use existing dizzy pickup or just use Wastefire and just skip the cam sensor all together?

Also, are you planning to use Alpha-N only or run it in MAP/Alpha-N mixed mode? I believe mixed mode (+WBO2 feedback) would be easiest way to get good engine character at low throttle opening (assuming you get your throttles in sync 100%).

Regards

[Trog]

Originally Posted by TimT

Try a slide hammer, thread a sheet metal screw into the cap, then attach the slide hammer, smack smack smack, and the plug should be out.

That's probably the way I'll go. Soon to be listed: "Slide hammer" only used once.

[Trog]

Originally Posted by beepbeep

Nice project! I'm going to follow it from now on!

One question:

...do you have to use cam sensor and go trough whole process of installing a cam pickup? Can't you use existing dizzy pickup or just use Wastefire and just skip the cam sensor all together?

Also, are you planning to use Alpha-N only or run it in MAP/Alpha-N mixed mode? I believe mixed mode (+WBO2 feedback) would be easiest way to get good engine character at low throttle opening (assuming you get your throttles in sync 100%).

Regards

You only need to use a cam-position sensor if you want true sequential fuel injection. The system will work with the crank sensor alone, but not sequentially. Sequential injection requires confirmation of TDC on the compression stroke (hence the cam-sensor).

I plan to use the WBO2 eventually. It's probably best to start my tuning in open-loop and progress to closed-loop once I get the engine running properly. Stayed tuned for future tuning progress reports.

[scottbooth]

You may be able to borrow a slide hammer from an auto parts store. When I did the 2nd of my rear wheel bearings I "rented" a slide hammer from a local AutoZone. They got an approval on my credit card for some crazy "security deposit" amount for the cost of the tool and then tore up the slip when I returned the tool. Standard "tool rental" policy. But, I used the tool for free, and that's not bad.

The tool that I borrowed had a screw-on "foot" with multiple slots that I was able to use with the studs on the wheel hub. With a couple of washers and some minor hassle ,this may work with your sheet metal screw threaded into the cap, as suggested above.

ITB EFI is on my to-do list (kinda low due to cost but whatever) for my SC track car, which runs OK with my mostly-functional CIS but could do better, I think. So I am watching closely and wishing you the best.

Good luck,
Scott