Pretty badass there Kenik. What are the details on this 165 tired 2.7 car??? :eek::eek:

Kenik,
Those wheels look very nice. I estimate two more weekends of dialing my 71E MFI system. Tires are next. Thanks for the tip. Those are in the running.

Regards,

al

hey Al, when can I come and see it!

Thanks again, for the tip, Kenik.

Al





http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1264894655.jpg

Its been three months, any updates? I need some more envy to keep me on a roll!

t

Getting my other car on the road again has gotten in the way of any real progress on this car:

Cleaning up the SWB - paint here we come! - Early 911S Registry Bulletin Board

Parts are out for coating, turbo brakes are at Rebel Racing for restoration, etc, but nothing meaningful that involves my labor. :)

Looking good, Al! When you gonna drive that sucker down to Issaquah for the XXX gathering?

Alright, I've let the cat out of the bag to enough folks that it is time for an update, as things are moving again.

As many of you know, I bagged the 2.3L ST motor theme for this car after driving a few other cars, thinking I really wanted more power. I sold many parts and shared all of my research and brain power with another committed early car buff, Cameron Arnott, who went ahead and built the motor specced above to about 95% identical spec. Let's just say that after seeing how the combo performed, I am kicking myself a little bit! Anyone interested in Cam's 2.3L beast can read more here...

Back to my car. :)

Those who know me personally also know that I am a consistent contrarian. I dislike conventional solutions and those who tell me "I can't". The newly specced motor that I am building exemplifies this. Some history: I’ve always wanted to put a turbo motor in an early 911, so made the decision to alter my plans and build a turbo in the spirit of the previous spec. The real catalyst was driving a 2.8 short stroke and realizing that I am power hungry and needed more than I had given myself in the previous spec. Such is life.

The typical turbo doesn’t appeal to me, meaning 3 liter and up turbos don’t mesh with my fiber. Frankly, they make too much power and anyone can buy one from the lot of stock turbo motors sitting out there on palettes. To the folks who give the standard “Just by a 3.3 turbo and be done with it” comments – I am deaf to you, so don’t try. :cool:

The motor I am now building is specced and the parts to build the shortblock are in hand. As inferred above, it will be a small bore turbo, along the lines of the 2.1L Baby RSR. It will use the same heads, MFI stacks and TBs, 85mm (JE/Nickie)bore x 66mm stroke, as the previous motor, for a 2.3L intercooled turbocharged giant killer. Static CR of my pistons has been also been measured and confirmed at my target of… 8.9:1. On top of this, I will be running what many would consider suicidal boost levels of ~1.5 BAR. I have also settled on RarlyL8’s immaculate 1.5" headers - Ben and Brian have been saints in dealing with my questions, BTW! The motor is being built with the same hardware to safely rev to 8000 RPM and my cam choice makes power to suit: Custom John Dougherty turbo cams: GT2 intake with the DC43 exh on a 108 lobe center (@ .050” Duration=248I/242E, lift .485”I/.484”E, 108 lobe centers)

HP target is conservatively set between 350 – 375 RWHP @ 7500RPM. The naysayers will come up with numerous reasons why this won’t work and I say B#LL$IT to you. Talk to Eddie Bello – he’ll set you straight. He’s been running a higher static CR than my spec at near 2 BAR of boost in 3.6, for his record shattering one mile speed runs in his car. Guess what, he hasn’t had to tear down the motor yet.

Regarding turbo selection…after exhaustive research, I decided to go with a turbo from a Mitsubishi Evo IX. This is a twin scroll turbo that uses equal length exhaust runner energy to improve spoolup characteristics, which is very important for these smaller motors. The icing on the cake is I just sent my turbo core to Chad Block (remember him?) for a full performance build to BBK Lite spec. In this, I get a turbo that was designed for a 2.0L-2.3L motor that makes 380WHP at 25 psi (1.7BAR) topping @7500 RPM on 93 octane in an Evo IX. Here’s a dyno sheet from a 2 liter Evo on pump gas with no fancy mods… Here’s a marketing photo of the little beast:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1270098732.jpg

The latest update is that Jamie Novak has all of my engine guts and is busy TFL coating the bearing surfaces, as well as heat coating the combustion bits. Once those come back, the bottom end goes together.

Once the long block is done, I will need to finally commit on the induction and engine management. Electronic MFI or pure EFI? Water/meth injection to support 25psi or even...29 psi??? Oh we'll see! To be clear, my final fuelling and ignition solution is still up in the air, but there are a few absolutes:

• I will be using my custom bored MFI stacks and TBs for this motor
• I will be using a custom water/air IC, designed and fabbed by me
• I will be using knock control
• Water/meth injection will be used
• Visual stealth (early MFI motor) is a primary design goal

I have already conceptually laid out the IC and it won't obstruct an MFI pump, if used. The design also allows the use of the stock airbox, with proper modifications, to remain in place for the ultimate in stealth looks and would hide the water/meth injectors, placed above the intake trumpets on the stacks.

There are still design challenges to overcome and although I do like the benefits of sequential EFI control, I am somewhat hesitant to have a big, honking fuel rail and EFI injector adapters below the TBs. Stealth is the main reason why I am considering MEFI (from this day forward, this will be my acronym for MFI w/ electronic fuel trim adjustment).

One thing at a time, though.

So, stay tuned - once this litte project is out of the garage (a few more weeks), the motor build will begin.

After this VERY long-winded update, the takeaway is that the build is not dead and getting back to full steam. I'll start a fresh build thread for the motor in the Engine forum once I start wrenching and keep updating this tread for the non-motor related bits.

I'll keep you posted.

fantastic

Please post the link to engine build on this thread so we don't miss it


Did you consider variable vain turbo?
(Forgive my ignorance if the Evo MK IX is a VGT/VTG)
Maybe effective for a small displacement high cr engine?

Thanks for sharing

I did and the Evo IX and X are not variable vane, although they are twin scroll.

As far as variable vane turbos go, the best fit would be the 997 Turbo, Borg-Warner VTG that uses a PWM actuated vane system. By my guess in terms of CFM production for my HP targets, it would most likely require a change to the wheels to build a little more top end pressure. FWIW, the perforamnce tuners actually dump the VTGs for non-VTG Garretts to make really big power.

While it would not be hard to drive the VTG solenoid from an aftermarket ECU and could likely adapt Garrett wheels to up the air volume, the hardest part is the cost. When I was looking, all you could buy were pairs of the B-W VTGs and at over $10K a set, I said 'no thanks'.

I think the first drive will go something like this.

WWWWWWWHHHRRRRR


FFFSSSSSHHHHHHH


WHHEEEEEEE!!!!!!

:)

LONG ways off... :)

This is a fabulous idea. I think the M(E)FI option is a must. After all, you have already (admirably) rejected those off-the-shelf, run of the mill 3.6s.

And with your attention span....Lets just say that I am not getting excited yet! SmileWavy

Kenik,
That is too much. I will keep posted to this one. The retro mod/stealth turbo approach is killer.

Regards,

Al

PS: I am a ways down the road on the Speed Triple EFI idea. E-MFI is also in the queue, but I am humbled by your turbo motors x-faktor.

i cant wait to follow this build!!! Im sure it will be amazing!!!

I for one think it's a GREAT idea and can't wait to see, hear and maybe even FEEL (inside the car) the final results. Best of luck Kenik!

Sehr Fantastich!
 

Esoteric! Kenik you better have this motor built by the time I get my German car! Ping me when you need some CAD help.:D

As I have stated before...covering up the flat six with a giant inter cooler is sad and ugly. Your stealth set up is going to be a coup!

...wait, aren't you supposed to be working on the brown car right now? :p

HOW MUCH Horspower???!!!:D

Freakin Hell, I cant wait to see the build thread on this one :)

love the off the wall approach and the fact its smalll capacity ,will be amazing to hear it run :)

Hey Kenik

Whats your plan transmission wise on this one?

Safe to assume no vowel 901 box ? :D

You, sir, have the creativity of Shakespeare combined with the balls of Patton.

I'm looking forward to this build, what's your timeline?

Short block starts after the paint on the brown car is done.

If you get carried away with your intercooler, you could always move the MFI pump onto the valve cover ala 935....just a thought.

Im crazy, not CRAZY. :)

The heart of an angry, angry beast arrived in the mail today:

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c7...n/IMAG0372.jpg

Slowly, things are coming together.

Looks kinda dinky. My wife's hairdryer is bigger than that! SmileWavy

did they include the wind-up key?

Kenik:
Is that were the squirrl runs?

:) :)

t

Fast car

is faster

slowly.

:cool:

It is kinda dinky. For scale:
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c7...n/IMAG0373.jpg

Doesn't mean it makes dinky power, though. This is Mitsubishi Evo IX on this turbo, with identical displacement to my motor:
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c7...an/EVOdyno.jpg

Compare that your run of the mill 3.2SS:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1260119520.jpg

When you overlay them, you get this:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1273013859.jpg


Do you see anywhere that the 3.2SS makes better torque than the little turbo? Thought not. Any questions? SmileWavy

it should be a monster, nice torque!!! what trans are you putin' in front of it??

Current plan is for a tarted up 915 w/ oil cooler, LSD and Wevo side plate. G50s are just stoopid money these days and there are enough turbos and 3.6s out there running them that my confidence is high it will handle it. As long as driven properly, should work out fine.

Oh Kenik, i hope your buying everyhing in triplicate because you are going to be needing to swap motors every weekend.... Are you stupid enough to put the adjustable wastegate next to the drivers seat.... :) bawhaaaaa!

Look who's talking, chucklehead...how's the outboard liquified propane MFI system coming along? I'll come by and let the zork from my turbo turn your car into a fireball while driving by...

Heh...

Great build! Cant wait to see it run. Best of luck!

Ohhhh big man... :). The only fireball is going to be the chunks of turbo falling out the zork! You will not be able to resist the shiny red 'boom knob'!!!! Don't turn the shiny red knob! Stimpy!!! :)

I know my self waaaay to well to have a manual wastgate control in the car. It will all be ECU controlled.

Yowzers! Good luck with this one Kenik; quite the project. Bet your new buddies at the WSP are reading with interest. :D

Hah!

They'll never catch me with this set up.