Ring & Pinion tool P357a QUESTIONS

[911 tweaks]

Hi all,
Can anyone post a pic of what this tool "does" and what transmissions it works on ?? A friend said I need this to rebuild a 915 transmission.
I am guessing it is used to do something with the ring & pinion as the tool name states, but what ??
Pelican does not list the tool on the site here so I can't see it & I can't find it in the archives.
Thanks!!
Bob

[356RS]

This tool is for measuring the ring & pinion backlash. You can make your own tool. I can take a picture of the one I built, but I'm sure you can find a picture of a P357a in the 915 manual and that well explain what it's for.

[911 tweaks]

so Mark, this is needed for the 915 to set the depth ?? of the pinion into the ring gear possibly ??
Or, is this needed for 901 or 356 crash boxes or possibly all of them ??
Thanks,
Bob

[911 tweaks]

hey Mark... can you please post a pic of what you made up ??
Bob

[356RS]

Bob, The P357a tool is for holding the pinion shaft tight so you can then use backlash tool with the P 258c gauge block which is bolted to the CV joint flange. With these two tools you are able to measure the amount of ring gear backlash. The P357a is NOT for pinion depth. Hope this helps.

[911 tweaks]

thanks Mark. I sent you a pm.
Bob

[MBEngineering]

HI Bob
the tools for a 915 gearbox set up, no tool P357a????

this is for a SC/3.2 box





this is for a early box





tools for rebuilding the box





regards mike

[911 tweaks]

thanks Mike a lot !! I will check this out.
Bob

[356RS]

Tool P259a and tool P357a is for the 915. The tools are for holding the pinion shaft from movement so to take a backlash reading of the ring gear.

[356RS]

I'm Wrong! Got to the shop today and pulled the service manual out. Porsche Factory Service Book group 3 for 72 on, page 5.1-5/8 & 5/9 shows tool P259a for holding/blocking the pinion shaft during ring gear backlash measurement. Then on page 5.2 1/2 it shows tool P357a for holding/blocking pinion shaft when measuring ring gear backlash. Both are for holding the pinion shaft, but the P357a is for the sportomatic and P 259a for the manual transmission. I'm sorry for the mistake
in tool numbers. These numbers get confusing after a bit.

[356RS]

Thanks Grady.

[Grady Clay]

Mark,

Gee, I haven't even posted (yet) and get thanks.
What a deal.

Best,
Grady

[911 tweaks]

thanks Grady & Mark for the info here as well as the other post of late by rarely8.

Do you know if a book is in the works for trans overhaul & all of these settings required Grady?

Bob

[sc_rufctr]

Peter Zimmerman would like to write a book but he has to think about the economic viability of such a book before he can start this project.

The desire and will is not enough. At the end of the day his publishing company needs to make a profit by selling this book.

How many copies could they hope to sell?

This is a guess but if they sold over 300 copies world wide that would be almost a miracle considering the content of the book.
I'm not sure of the costs of producing such a book in such small numbers but it wouldn't be cheap.
Publishing anything like this is always risky and complicated.

[Grady Clay]

I posted this on another thread but it is useful here.

There are three basic parts to the ring & pinion setting procedure:
- Setting the pinion position.
- Setting the differential bearing preload.
- Setting the pinion-to-ring gear backlash clearance.

In fact, if you are starting with a transmission or few, you should measure the:
- Existing position of the pinion.
- The existing bearing preload.
- The existing backlash around 360°.
- The existing pinion tooth to ring gear teeth pattern.

When you think you are all finished, the final proof is the pinion-to-ring tooth
contact pattern.

Porsche devised the instructions for R&P setting assuming you are
replacing the gear pair with new parts. In our case we are stirring around
used parts, attempting to make them act like new – well, at least work the
best possible.

Now, when setting the pinion position, there are two Factory tools; the original
p-tool P-258 was originally used starting with the 904 in 1963. With adapting
collars it is ideal for 915 and G50.

There is another tool very suitable for setting the pinion position. Porsche also
specifies the VW-385 tool. This serves the exact same function as P-258 only
with adaptors has more universal application (VW, Audi and much more).

Each of these tools (P-258 and VW-385) have many adaptors and related tools
(P-, VW, ‘of local manufacture’ and commercial) that are necessary to perform
their function. Porsche and VW have made some of the world’s finest special
tools. These are ‘machinery’s works of art’. Today many are priced as if they
were made of gold.

I think part of what we can do at our Pelican Forum is to post the techniques and
measurements that allow everyone to build their own special tools. Most don’t
have to be the ‘gold standard’ level, just properly functional.

That said, these tools can be made even better than the Porsche factory’s
vendors did. It doesn’t take a NASA contractor. If you can make a tool for
a John Deere, you can build great Porsche special tools.

Item #1 in this collection is VW-385. All the rest are (more or less) adaptors and related tools.



Item #10 in this collection is P-258 (shown with the collars for a 915).
Some of the other tools shown are not related to setting the pinion position.




There have been a number of good threads showing the tools, their use and
some great homemade functional copies.

Best,
Grady

[911 tweaks]

I would venture to guess several thousand books as it hopefully would cover reg maintenance to full rebuild and I bet most of the folks that bought wayne's engine rebuild book would buy the trans book also!!
REALLY!!
Now, that being said, would 1/2 of the buyers actually do a full rebuild, I guess not as the required tooling is very steep... it would spawn some to make tools at a fraction of factory tool costs... it would educate folks on what is involved to do what ever in their trans... AND, most importantly, it would save owners a ton of $$ on labor and they would venture further into the trans repairs!investigation than w/o such a book.
just my 2 cents worth... heck I would buy 10 books if it would help the cause to print it up.
Bob

[Grady Clay]

I have been working on the book issue also. I don’t want to author one. I don’t need the income nor want the aggravation of dealing with the publisher and process.

That said, I have been collecting transmissions to use as examples. If anyone has extras, email me. Wayne has a stack also and I’m sure Peter Z. is well endowed.

Everyone I talk to confirms the economic reality facing a publisher. There probably won’t be a commercial book.

As an alternative, why don’t we use Wayne’s Forum to cooperatively post the information in an organized form. The problem of searching Pelican (and a very few others) is the information is scattered, not in order and not edited. Would some version of the Pelican wiki be useful?

I’ll propose we have several experienced people edit a final thread. This can be on a sorta continuous basis like wiki so one person has to shoulder the load. Sorta like moderators only editing content. In conjunction, there can be an open forum (thread) to gathers information, suggestions, critique, etc. This way the ‘book’ gets filtered better than just wiki.

A few years ago I posted an outline.
What do you think?

Best,
Grady

[sc_rufctr]

Originally Posted by Grady Clay

As an alternative, why don’t we use Wayne’s Forum to cooperatively post the information in an organized form..... Would some version of the Pelican wiki be useful?

I’ll propose we have several experienced people edit a final thread. This can be on a sorta continuous basis like wiki so one person has to shoulder the load. Sorta like moderators only editing content. In conjunction, there can be an open forum (thread) to gathers information, suggestions, critique, etc. This way the ‘book’ gets filtered better than just wiki.

Best,
Grady

Both excellent ideas...

[GaryR]

Old thread, but did anyone ever make up a set of these tools or publish the dimensions? Exactly what (of the set) is actually needed to set pinion depth?

[Peter Zimmermann]

Porsche Wiki

My Tutorial Part 5 shows the R&P set up process and tools, but doesn't dwell on making tools at home.