Backdate a 964 C2?

[GaryR]

I know Air Cooled did a C4 a while back but I see TRE doesn't offer kits for 964 C2s. Is there a big fitment issue? I want to backdate a 964 with front/rear RSR fenders, longhood, and bumpers as I think it would make a great hot-rod for the street with the 3.6, good AC, coilovers, and G50. The prices are dropping and rather than start with a 78-89 why not!

[Flieger]

964s have lower front and rear bulkheads/valance areas. You need the extended airdam in front like on the AirCooledClassics or it will look weird. The rear will have "junk in the trunk" showing with the big motor, but it can look kind of cool that way. You also need to get Fuchs replicas, rather than real Fuchs if you intend to use the 964 struts and brakes. 964s use high offsets and negative scrub radius for the ABS, rather than the opposite, deep-dish, positive scrub radius of the early cars. The struts are also different and the Fuchs are not a big enough diameter for bigger brakes, which you may need for a 3,6 liter motor. Fuchs replicas can be of marginal quality. You need to know what you are getting. Lindsey or Jeff Alton Fuchs in 17inch sizes are good quality.

964s are harder to backdate and are heavier, however, they have the 3,6 liter and modern systems. They are also stronger chassis.

911teo (Matteo) used part of a 964 floorpan for his 3,9 liter Carrera project: 3.9 RSR project --- my Carrera reborn This was to facilitate the larger, stronger transaxle. It was not easy, just ask him.

Good luck with you project.

[GaryR]

Thanks Flieger, I appreciate the info. I already planned on going with Jeff Alton Fuch replicas as I assume he can make them in 17x9/11 to fit the 964 offset properly with RSR flares. I'm most concerned with the fiberglass fitment, but as long as the hood and fender gaps are close I can modify FG easily enough. I'll have to try and find the ACC thread and look hard at his pics. I'm sure, if and when the time comes, talking to TRE directly would be helpful also. I still may end up using an older doner but after seeing a few 964's in the low teens recently I wanted to know if they were a feasible start.

[Bill Verburg]

If you're starting w/ a 964 why not do a 3.8RS w/b like Geoffreys?

[boba]

Here is a link to a 964 backdate to RSR by Zuffenhaus. Hope it gives you the information you are looking for. You can always call Keith at 704-821-2546 or e-mail him info@zuffenhaus.us for more details.


http://66.236.61.177/showthread.php?t=318580&highlight=zuffenhaus

[GaryR]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

If you're starting w/ a 964 why not do a 3.8RS w/b like Geoffreys?

Hi Bill -

I want to create a longhood RSR with as modern a car as possible for road use. If you know the car Air Cooled Classics (C4) created it's similar to that but in wide-body. Or was theirs a wide-body? Gotta go check it out. One of my main parameters is good AC to make it comfortable for mid-summer cruising (mid-90's). I know I can retrofit a Kuehl system into an older car but due to the falling prices of 964's it has me thinking I can benefit from all the other advances in the later car (I owned 2 964's and loved them).

Thanks boba, i'll check that out also!

[GaryR]

Originally Posted by boba

Here is a link to a 964 backdate to RSR by Zuffenhaus. Hope it gives you the information you are looking for. You can always call Keith at 704-821-2546 or e-mail him info@zuffenhaus.us for more details.


http://66.236.61.177/showthread.php?t=318580&highlight=zuffenhaus

Yes, this is exactly what I want to achieve but don't need to go nearly as nuts as those guys. No 72 oil fill, fiberglass fenders, hood, bumpers and weld on rear flares. Interior will have replica seats and possibly RS panels but not a ton of other changes. I greatly admire the work they did on that car!

[RWebb]

It will look a lot better, but have worse aerodynamics.

People who have weighed the unit body tell me that it is nearly as light as an early 911, but is much much stiffer. The A/C, induction and exhaust and heavier tranny will make it "not so light"...

[GaryR]

Originally Posted by RWebb

It will look a lot better, but have worse aerodynamics.

People who have weighed the unit body tell me that it is nearly as light as an early 911, but is much much stiffer. The A/C, induction and exhaust and heavier tranny will make it "not so light"...

Understood. Again, I loved my 964's for the road but always yearned for the longhood look with a wide body. It will be a couple hundred pounds lighter with the FG pieces alone, seats, and secondary muffler bypass. That's plenty. I'm thinking the Alton wheels, though with bigger tires than stock, will still be close to the stock wheel/tire combo.

[boba]

If your intended use is mostly street driven, which I gather from your desire to have good AC/heat, you should think about fiberglass vs. metal for the fenders and rear flairs. Fiberglass is great stuff but it does have some drawbacks over time on a street driven car. If you protect the underside if the fenders from rock stars in the glass it will weigh about the same as metal. Price can be a push, so think about long term service and intended use.

"It will be a couple hundred pounds lighter with the FG pieces alone..." I think you are a bit optimistic with that estimate but you will save some weight with FG but as noted some trade offs. There are a number of opportunities to save weight and I think you can save a lot in the interior. Talk to Keith as he can give you details on what they were able to save.

[Flieger]

+1 on the above.

Fiberglass spider cracks the paint from rocks. It can also rattle and never fits perfectly.

For a street car, find other areas to lighten it, such as the interior.

I recommend steel fenders and quarterpanels/flares. I would go with fiberglass for the rear bumper, to get rid of all the weight of those bumper shocks and everything at the rear.

[GaryR]

Sorry I worded the original posting confusingly. I meant that between the fiberglass, seats, and muffler it would be about 200 LB. I believe the muffler bypass alone was a 35LB reduction on my C2 but it's been a while. I may consider steel front fenders and just do the hood (question will be if the TRE modified hood will work on cars newer than 89) and bumpers. It's all up in the air and just planning now so any ideas are appreciated. Anyone know what happened to the Zuffenhaus 964 conversion? The thread died almost a year ago and it was far from done..

[rattlsnak]

I understand what you want. I've always said my next project would be the exact same thing. However, you could make it look like a 74 RSR ALOT easier and cheaper.

http://i.pbase.com/o4/53/615153/1/62978609.Li3P9TQj.JagermeisterRSR_02.jpg

[GaryR]

Originally Posted by rattlsnak

I understand what you want. I've always said my next project would be the exact same thing. However, you could make it look like a 74 RSR ALOT easier and cheaper.

http://i.pbase.com/o4/53/615153/1/62978609.Li3P9TQj.JagermeisterRSR_02.jpg

I get an error on that link. As for the 74, I know it would save me a lot of work but if i'm doing it, it's going to be a longhood...

[rattlsnak]

Hmm, link works for me,. its a picture of a 74 Jagermeister RSR. Anyway, yes you're right,. build what your heart wants!

Keep us updated..

[GaryR]

Originally Posted by rattlsnak

Hmm, link works for me,. its a picture of a 74 Jagermeister RSR. Anyway, yes you're right,. build what your heart wants!

Keep us updated..

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You don't have permission to access /o4/53/615153/1/62978609.Li3P9TQj.JagermeisterRSR_02.jpg on this server.
Apache/2.0.58 (Unix) Server at i.pbase.com Port 80

[Flieger]

Try this one: http://www.pbase.com/slidevalve911rsr

Or here are some 74 911RSRs:




Here is Matteo's car: