Question re: Carrera 3.2 3rd Brake Lamp Variations

[Tim in N FL]

Hello Pelicans,

I own an '87 Carrera 3.2 Coupe (build date 2/87) with front and rear factory spoilers (smile & decklid). Over the years of admiring and shopping for my first 911, I noticed that the '84-89 Carreras have two or three variations of the 3rd brake lamp:

1) The "War Of The Worlds" (or "Cyclops") style -- mounted externally at the top of the factory-installed tail. My car has this style which is specified on the window sticker that I have in my records file (see photo below).

My '87 Coupe


'87 Targa


Carrera 3.2 Cabriolet (New South Wales, Australia)



I believe this style was available for cars with and without the rear decklid spoiler according to Pelican Parts inventory:

http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/shopcart/911M/POR_911M_ELlite_pg7.htm#item30

2) The "inside the car" mounting location at the top of the window or at the bottom of the window (see link above to Pelican's inventory).





Carrera with a Turbo Tail added (?)






Hopefully, my question for the group here is a simple one...

What combination of Production Date (i.e., production year / month), 911 Model (i.e., Coupe, Targa, Cabriolet), and Factory Options / Option Packages determined the style of factory-installed 3rd brake lamp (U.S. Spec, in particular)?

I have been confused because I have seen later model Carrera 3.2s with and without the decklid spoiler that have the 3rd brake lamp either externally or internally.

Thanks in advance for your thoughtful comments and for the education...

Best,
Tim

p.s.
I searched the archives without success and also tried searching Google neither of which yielded any solid answers.
Sorry if this is a frequently asked question...

[Tim in N FL]

So, is this a reasonable question or am I missing something so completely obvious that no one wants to point out my blatant ignorance? I would appreciate any information fellow Pelicans could offer. Thanks in advance...

[DRACO A5OG]

The Red and Champaign ones are not OEM.

It is either the ET (for Cabs) or the top of rear windshield (for Coupes/Targas).

[slodave]

Originally Posted by DRACO A5OG

The Red and Champaign ones are not OEM.

It is either the ET (for Cabs) or the top of rear windshield (for Coupes/Targas).

You really might want to rethink that. All three locations are OEM.

[DRACO A5OG]

Hey Dave,

Hope you are well.

So you are saying pics #6 and #8 are OEM?

I do agree the ET is an option for cars with tails if ordered from the factory.

[slodave]

Not sure that 6 and 8 had tails when they left the factory.

6 looks like a turbo tail and the script in 8 is not in the right place.

[DRACO A5OG]

Originally Posted by slodave

Not sure that 6 and 8 had tails when they left the factory.

6 looks like a turbo tail and the script in 8 is not in the right place.

I believe he was asking about the third light placement. They just don't look right to me, but I could be wrong

[slodave]

Yes and they still had them in the lower center . 87-89

[DRACO A5OG]

Oh Cool, when my LEDs go out, I am going to update it to the OEM part. Thanks for the edification

[the]

I'm surprised no one has answered, so here's my understanding.

The center mount taillight became mandatory in the US starting with the 1986 model year.

So, 1985 and earlier had none.

Cabriolets - that's easy, the 1986 through 1989 Cabs all had the "ET" style third brake light.

For coupes and targas, general rules:

1986 - Came with the third brake light on the inside of the car, on the rear glass, in the UPPER location.

1987. For some reason, Porsche located the light to the LOWER interior location for this year only.

1988-89 - it was moved back to the upper location.

But there does seem to be some issue, from what I've seen, on cars that came with spoilers, either as options on the Carreras, or standard on the Turbo. I've seen spoilered 86-89 cars with the light on the glass (in the locations above, depending on year), OR with the "ET" external one, and nothing in the glass. It seems like they did both, randomly.

[DRACO A5OG]

So Tim, you will pass concours or put an OEM light on the lower part of the rear windshield to ID as a 87.

[the]

It seems, and this is only a guess, that '87 was an oddball year, the only one with the internal light mounted on the bottom of the inside window, and it seems like 1987 cars that came with spoilers (either factory spoilers on the Carrera or standard on the Turbo) had the "ET" style light.

The other years spoilered cars seem to come with the internal, upper mounted light.

Maybe the 1987 lower mounted light was too low to pass regs, so they needed the ET light? But then when they moved back to the upper one for 88/89, they could standardize all 911/930 to run that one, with no external ET light.

[vanwyk4257]

Just a datapoint, I had a 1985 911 coupe with a factory carrera tail that had the snorkel third brake light from the factory. My '87 911 targa with a factory carrera tail had the same. I have since removed the unsightly wart from the back of my car to install a ducktail.

[David in VA]

As another example. Mine is an '87, I'm pretty sure the tail was added after the car left the factory. Third brake light is inside, on the bottom.

[3.2 CAB]

Two different "ET" lights were also used:

Third brake light- external without spoiler------911 631 071 00--- 86-89' (this one is a little shorter than the other one.)
Third brake light- external with spoiler----------911 631 072 00----86-89'

Three different internal lights

Third brake light- inside, upper------------------ 911 631 070 00 01C----86-87'
Third brake light- Coupe, inside lower----------911 631 080 00---------87-89'
Third brake light- Targa, inside lower----------- 911 631 070 01 ---------87-89'

[motorcop]

That would answer my question as to why my 1984 Cab, with whale tail has no third brake light. Have no plans of adding it either!!

[canamfan]

3.2 cab nailed it! It's pretty much the same for Canadian sold 911's (although there were times) when people ordered their 911's with out tails but decided to instal them @ the dealer level, that's when you saw some "inapropriate" locations ie; like the light inside (on the bottom) with the tail, pretty noticeable when it's a turbo tail (the rubber lip @ road level viewing covers part of the light). The shorty ET was on cabs without tails (don't see these too often, kinda' cool IMO). Sometimes it depended on whether the dealer ordered the car and customer bought it, but with extra dealer options (this would show on the window sticker but not on the build sheet) unless if the customer actually put in a factory order, everything here would show on buld sheet that's oredered, but again if customer decides to add some things, these items would show on window sticker. Atleast that's the way it as here in Ontario, Canada @ the time.

[elpresidente]

I'm really glad someone asked this question. My '87 Coupe with factory Carrera tail has the ET snorkel light and I would love to remove it. Anyone with experience care to share the process, along with what to use to plug the 2 holes in the tail?

Is it a PITA to convert to the inside the glass 3rd light? Or should I just remove the snorkel and be done with it?

[65_lincoln]

As another data point to confirm what I think has been defined here, I have a '87 Targa (manufactured 11/86) without a tail which has the 3rd brake light at the bottom of the rear window.

[Poor-sche Lover]

I've got a cab w/no tail, so I have the shorty ET light. I'd actually like to get a Carrera tail w/the tall ET light. In my searches, I've noticed that there is also a discrepancy as to where the light is mounted on the decklid. Sometimes, it's actually on the tail, and sometimes, it's on the decklid, just above the tail. I am assuming this is a result of the dealer-added tails???