Clutch Project Planning, please advise

[emcon5]

Someone (Superman I think) once told me that you don't truly own your car until you remove its engine. Well, I am about to own my car.

I am in the final planning stages of a engine drop to replace my clutch. The car is an 82 911SC with a stock engine and trans with ~103K miles. I ordered the Pelican Clutch Super kit, as well as a pile of small parts to replace while I can get to them. This is what I have coming, so far.

Sachs Power Clutch kit,
Helper Spring, Backlash Spring, and 2 Circlips
Throw-out Bearing Release Fork, Roll Pin & 3 Bushings
Guide Tube O-Ring
9 Flywheel Bolts
Clutch Cable
Flywheel Seal & Pilot Bearing
Top Oil cooler seals
Bottom Oil cooler seal
Engine Thermostat O ring
Oil pressure switch
CIS Intake Runner boots
Engine compartment sound mat
New heater ducts, HE's to flapper boxes, and fan to HE's..

While I have it out, I am going to upgrade to a Carrera Tensioner Kit.

I also ordered some special tools,

911 Flywheel Lock
Flywheel Socket
Clutch Alignment Tool

For reference material, I have Wayne's book and the Haynes and Bentley SC manuals.

I also need enough oil for a change, a new oil filter, and some Swepco 201 to change the tranny fluid while I have it apart.

Now my questions:
1. Should I replace the chain guide ramps while I have it apart?
2. Is there anything I am forgetting?
3. Are there any other special tools or lubricants I will need?
4. For a clutch job, should I remove the engine and transaxle, or just the engine?
5. Any hints on the best way to get the car high enough to get the engine out?
6. Anything else a 911 engine removal virgin should know?

Thanks in advance,

Tom

[emcon5]

Also, what do I need in the way of Torque wrenches for this project? The only one I have goes up to 150 ft-lbs, but it is a cheapie, and I don't know how accurate it is.

Thanks,

Tom

[Natchamp]

Tom, sounds like you're planning it well. The only thing I can answer is it is easier to remove the engine/tranny as one unit vs. just pulling the engine. It's not that big a deal and you will be better off pulling it as one unit.

[82SC]

DEFINATELY nee the torque wrench....you REALLY do not want to mess with settings on the fly wheel, pressure plate, etc...

Have a good one...if you don't want to spend the money get at least a Sears or Husky (Home Depot) one...they are middle of the road...

for the pressure plate release pressure in incriments and go in a star pattern so you don't warp the pressure plate...oh wait you are switching...but same goes with putting it on and off

Same thing for the fly wheel incriments and star pattern

Get the flywheel resurfaced at a local machine shop...should run you about 40-60 bucks

I did the EXACT same job...1982SC power clutch upgrade.
I like it alot...any specific ques?

Fell free to email me if you want more info

[KTL]

Additions to parts list:

-Valve cover gasket kit ($15-$18), might as well adjust the valves while the motor's out.
-Rubber S-hose from oil cooler to oil tank
-Check the shift rod seal when you get the motor AND trans. out at the same time (I agree with Mark/Natchamp, take the trans. with the motor)
-Check the condition of the throttle bell crank on the trans. The ball cup and the plastic bushings wear out over time.
-Consider replacing motor mounts. About $30 apiece and tighten up the drivetrain (get Club Sport/Cabrio mounts for more stiffness if desired).

You can save a few $$ by making a flywheel lock out of 3/16" plate steel from the local hardware/home improvement store. Cut a piece with your hacksaw to the necessary length to span between one of the trans. mounting studs and one of the clutch/pressure plate bolts.

You can get the 12 point allen socket at your local Pep Boys/Napa shop in their sometimes useful tool section. Lisle makes a solid set of these sockets.

The Craftsman torque wrenches are plenty good for once in a while use. Sit tight and watch the sale papers this time of year. They pretty much always go on sale for $49.99 (small 0-25 lb-ft, or large 0-150 lb-ft models).

Now my questions:
1. Should I replace the chain guide ramps while I have it apart?
I recall many posts about finding parts of ramp plastic in the
sump plate when changing the oil, so it couldn't hurt and you
might as well do them since you'll be in there for the new
tensioners.
2. Is there anything I am forgetting?
3. Are there any other special tools or lubricants I will need?
Do you have the Porsche feeler gauge for the valves? John
Walker posted a Snap-On tool that is supposed to be better.
Ask him about it, as I did not see the post.
4. For a clutch job, should I remove the engine and transaxle, or just the engine?
Take both out.
5. Any hints on the best way to get the car high enough to get the engine out?
Here's how my friend and I do it for our 86,87 cars. We use
2X12's cut to about 2 ft. lengths and stack them under the
rear wheels as the car is lifted. I think we go about five high.
You don't want to get the car too high in the air because your
floor jack won't reach the bottom of the motor (without placing
something on the jack head to take up the space, which is
quite unsafe). The accepted way around here is to put the
jack stands on the torsion bar/spring plate mounts, but the
wood stacks seem more stable to me as they sit under the
tires and provide more surface area to support the weight of
the car. Only draw back is you must have the wood and you
must jack the car a little higher to get the motor clearance you
need. That's because you're supporting the car with the rear
suspension (which moves up and down when you load and
unload it) and not the body (doesn't move when you support
it). Take the rear bumper off so you get more clearance for
getting the motor out. Two floor jacks- one under the motor
and the other on the trans. mount- and you roll the drive-
train right out.
6. Anything else a 911 engine removal virgin should know?
Take your time. Make sure everything is disconnected (don't
forget the rear sway bar and starter wiring like we always do).

Good luck.

[ChrisBennet]

(I already posted this on Rennlist but in the interest of completeness...)
emcon5 writes:
1. Should I replace the chain guide ramps while I have it apart?
If your ramps have never been changed I would change them. In addition to the ramps you'll need 6 aluminum washers for the chain ramp bolts and a gasket kit for the chain boxes.
2. Is there anything I am forgetting?
There is no easier time to adjust your valves. You'll need the special feeler guage for this. Now is good time to replace the injector O-rings and test the injectors. This is a good time to replacing the intake gaskets. I'd replace the ground strap and fuel filter. You'll also need new CV joint bolts. Look at the bolts carefully, you may need a "triple square" (looks like a star) to remove them.
3. Are there any other special tools or lubricants I will need?
Do you have the 17mm hex wrench to remove the tranmission drain/fill plugs?
4. For a clutch job, should I remove the engine and transaxle, or just the engine?
You remove them together.
5. Any hints on the best way to get the car high enough to get the engine out?
Tall jackstands and/or lots of 2x12x18" boards. The boards are large enough that you can place jackstands on top of them. I use a long 2x10 under the rear firewall to jack the back of the car up after the engine is out. I place half a dozen boards on top of the jack pad and then this long board in order to get the car high enough.
6. Anything else a 911 engine removal virgin should know?
You need to get the front of the car up in the air some as well. (I use large homemade ramps.) The back of the car gets jacked up so high the front spoiler will get pushed into the floor if it isn't raised somehow.

Be careful!
-Chris

[Jim Sims]

Wrenches (they're large metric sizes) for oil line removal (needed to drop engine), anti-seize lubricant to put on the oil line fitting threads when you reinstall, gaskets for CV joint flanges. Also, it is my experience that the pressure-fed tensioner kit doesn't have the chain wheel support spacers (for the old, narrow chain wheel supports) or the new chain wheel supports. If you do this tensioner upgrade, you will need one or the other; I recommend the new style chain wheel supports in which case you will not need the spacers. Check your chains for wear while you're in there. Jim

[Jim Sims]

Correction: since your car is an 82SC it already has the newer wider stance chain wheel supports (or sprocket supports); I think the change over was made in 1980. You can reuse the existing ones. Also, if you're going to adjust valves you will need a low- range (5 to 25 ft-lbs) torque wrench to retighten the valve covers properly (overtightening and warping the covers is a prime cause of oil leaks) and a 13 mm crowsfoot wrench. In addition, use the right type of locknut with a high temperture rated fibre insert or prevailing torque design (all metal distorted thread geometry) rated for the higher temperatures on the valve covers. You can reuse the nuts that are there now but if you lose one just don't go to the hardware store and pickup a standard locking nut with a nylon insert; the nylon will soften in the heat and creep. Jim

[82SC]

for the jack and the jackstands look out for the ones made for SUV's

my floor jack is for SUV and I can just barely squeeze it under at the beginning.

My jack stands are for SUV's so I can keep the car at a nice height when working...about 21"

I used to jacks, one was a regular jack for the engine, the other was the SUV...

At the end of the engine drop I had to put the SUV jack under the middle of the car...ahead of the tranny and jack from ther until my car rear was almost 30" off the ground.

You will need to make a engine stand and by that I mean 4x4 wood with heavy duty casters. Make sure to use lag screws and metal braces or your engine/tranny will twist the crap out of your homemade stand. The casters are great so I can roll things around. Put a sheet of plywood on top to strengthen further

If you have oil leaks and don't know where they are coming from may be the oil cooler or oil thermostat or crankcase breather gasket.

Read my tech article on simple oil leak fixes...do those while the car is out as well

MJ

[ChrisBennet]

My basic procedure is:
1. Put car up just high enough to work under. Level front and
back.
2. Lower engine+trans onto two stacks of boards placed
under heat exchangers. Remove jack.
3. Jack rear of car up and off engine.
4. Put jack back under engine, find balance point then lift
engine and remove boards. Lower engine some and wheel
it out from under car.

[emcon5]

Thanks for the replies. I went ahead and ordered the ramps, and should have all the parts today.

I am not planning on replacing the timing chains at this time, mainly because I am already about $1500 into this, and I don't have the tools required to time the cams after changing chains. I have a top end in my future, I will replace the chains then.

I still need to hit Harbor Freight and pick up a couple of tall jackstands and a furnature dolly to make into an engine cart, and Sears to look at torque wrenches.

I'll keep everyone posted,

Tom

[FRED/LI]

Please remember to take the ring gear off the old unit before you throw it away..(Don't ask me how I know this!)....and reinstall it before you reassemble everything. It really saves you a lot of time not having to repeat the entire process!
Tip: thouroughly clean the debris out of the twelve point bolt heads so that the socket gets the best possible grip to avoid stripping the heads. However, the heads can be drilled off if necessary.
Have fun.

[82SC]

when jacking the car that high BE CAREFUL!!!

I WOULD NOT jack up the front...do only the back...

reason is that when the back is that high the front will have alot of the weight on it and will creep forward...mine started running over my chocks...

keep the front on the floor with good chocks like a tall ramp or a 2x4 plus a 4x4

if you are cleaver you can design a engine trolly to work with your jack...I mean if you cover the top with plywood, you can cut out a slot for the jack arm to fit in...that way you can postion the trolly diredtly under the engine and still use the jack and lower it down...the balance thing seems to risky for me...I know it has been done a thousand times but even Leland dropped his motor...and if you are a one man show like I was I don't think I could lift if back up...even the tranny alon almost gave me a hernia...

MJ

[andyu911]

I just did that couple weeks ago. I left the front on the ground. Got a heavy duty trolly and placed it under the engine. Make sure there's nothing connected, then raised the rear as high as possible. I used two jacks with the aftermarket jacking plates, so I could move the car a bit to clear anything.
One suggestion along with all others above: Check all fuel lines. I gonna replace all of them with SS line as many as possible.

Good luck, have fun and welcome to the Owner's Club!

Andy
'87 Carrera

Here's a picture with the engine and tranny on the trolly!

[Bill Verburg]

It's also a lot easier to replace shock absorbers while the engine is out.

[flat6pilot]

I'm being green and recycling a thread:

Subject- Clutch removal/install, guide tube on the transmission for the release bearing.

I can't seem to find the part number for the guide tube seal for a '80 911SC. I can find the guide tubes here in the catalog but there is no mention of the seal inside the guide tube..??? Is it named something else?

[gtc]

Is this what you're thinking of?
Guide Tube O-Ring
999-701-359-40-M30


Edit:
Let's take bets on how many people chime in now about how to drop an engine, without noticing how old this thread is.
My guess is three!

[flat6pilot]

I have the O-ring, but there is a seal INSIDE the guide tube that fits around the input shaft that I'm looking for.

I'm I crazy? there IS a seal INSIDE the guide tube right? I have one inside the guide tube I pulled off my car.

Thanks for the try though.

[fastfredracing]

Maybe want to line up a emachine shop that can resurface your flywheel if needed

[RWebb]

kyle - search on dam seal -- add Grady Clay if too many hits

that is a "safety" mod