Engine fire...

peter_soj · 03-18-2009, 10:54 PM

Anyone have any idea why a 2.7l would shoot out a fireball with no spark plugs in it? Spark plugs were out, there was an oil/fuel combo leak, we think that the CIS was pumping fuel constantly putting too much in, we had just done a compression check and were gonna crank it over for a while to see if the rest of the oil/fuel would leak out...
bang, fireball into my dads face. lost most of his hair, eyebrows, burns to his face.
Only happened 15 minutes ago, he's gone to the emergency room.

Seriously, why the **** would the engine spark with no spark plugs? Don't know where the fireball came from didn't really get much detail, i was i the seat turning the key. But dad said it was his fault, his stupidity. I don't understand why the stupid thing would spark.

Engines probably ruined as all the cylinders were open and there was what looked like an engine fire, closest thing was a hose so dad grabbed that, hosed down his head and then pointed it towards the engine bay. The oil/fuel in a tub underneath the car was also on fire.

I really REALLY regret getting this car now.

jrobb911 · 03-18-2009, 10:59 PM

gee, what gives a sparkplug spark? An ignition coil? Ever watched McGyver start a fire with a battery? A 400 amp battery can make quite a spark thats why you don't lick the posts to see if the battery is good like a 9v battery.

peter_soj · 03-18-2009, 11:02 PM

Dont really understand the licking part... and excuse my ignorance as I dont know A LOT about cars. Where is the ignition coil? why would it spark the cylinder or such shooting out a fireball?

slodave · slodave's Garage

Liquid gas is not flammable, but the fumes are. Could have had a build up of fumes, the coil, if left connected to the battery, will produce sparks.

Tis what I have to offer.

I hope your dad is OK.

In the future - I know how things go in the heat of the moment - don't use water on an oil/fuel fire. It can make things worse.

peter_soj · 03-18-2009, 11:13 PM

Yeah, the water helped a little bit, he knew straight away that the water wasn't gonna put it out but it, I guess you could say, diluted it, (this was the tub that was on fire) and i just chucked a towel over that, otherwise i don't think the engine really caught on fire.
I'm just really angry/guilty at the moment, doesn't feel good to know that I was the one turning the key, and if I hadn't of done it, it wouldn't have happened.

slodave · slodave's Garage

Take a deep breath! Sounds like your dad is OK, but with a little less hair.

It was an accident, could've happened on any project car. Have a couple of fire extinguishers close by and keep body parts as far away as possible.

I was helping a friend revive his 911 after 30+ years of slumber and every time he tried to start the car, I made sure to be away from the back end and inched closer as I felt more comfortable.

signature65 · 03-18-2009, 11:47 PM

the ends of the spark plug wires will still create a spark. They dont have to be plugged into the spark plugs to transmit the energy.....

Sounds like the wires grounded out creating a spark......

Glad your dad is ok though.

Oh one misconception......WATER WILL PUT OUT A GASOLINE/ENGINE FIRE. The thing is the gas will float on top of the water and off gas fumes which allows it to find another ignition source. So if you get the fire out then the igniton source is in essence out too. This is of course with the car no longer running..

JohnJL · 12:01 AM

Hope your dad's OK.

You say "we think that the CIS was pumping fuel constantly putting too much in..."

CIS stands for "continuous injection system" so the constantly putting too much in part isnt the likliest problem.

Once everyone gets their nerves back, turn the motor over a while with the plugs out and the fuel pump fuse disconnected. You are looking to see if there are any other shorts that "sparked" the fire. Disconnect the coil and tape off the connector if you want to be extra-special careful.

Id be surprised if the engine is ruined. Clean everything off, get the water out of the cylinders and track down that spark.

If all else fails I've got a spare running 2.7 I'd sell on exchange.

Geronimo '74 · 03-19-2009, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peter_soj

bang, fireball into my dads face. lost most of his hair, eyebrows, burns to his face.
Only happened 15 minutes ago, he's gone to the emergency room.

.

It happened only 15 minutes ago and you're already typing this???

I would be in the emergency room with him.
We wouldn't hold it against you if you told us the day after.
Go over there, make sure he's ok.
Wish him well from all of us

peter_soj · 03-19-2009, 12:17 AM

My brother drove him, he was pretty much okay, nothing VERY bad, some burns to his face. And I'm only 17 so can't drive yet.

slodave · slodave's Garage

Sounds like dad may have a new story at the local pub

Geronimo '74 · 03-19-2009, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peter_soj

My brother drove him, he was pretty much okay, nothing VERY bad, some burns to his face. And I'm only 17 so can't drive yet.

Ok, glad to hear that.

Mr.Puff · 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peter_soj

My brother drove him, he was pretty much okay, nothing VERY bad, some burns to his face. And I'm only 17 so can't drive yet.

Been to Melbourne, great place. Better than Sydney

.

(Next time use sand on the fire.)

peter_soj · 03-19-2009, 05:18 AM

Yeah he's alright, got back from hospital a few hours ago. He looks sorta weird half hairless.

Mr.Puff, I heard Sydney's not that good as well :P

JohnJL · 03-19-2009, 04:28 PM

Is it too early for a Melbourne fire joke?

SCWDP911 · SCWDP911's Garage

Glad to hear your dad is going to be OK Peter. Don;t give up on the ole girl yet. Things will work out, but sounds like you guys need to sit down and come up with a plan. I manage a power plant and one of the things we do before every job is called "Take Two". It means before we do any part of the job, we take two minutes and think through all possible hazards we might have missed during the normal job planning process. It works well on the homefront too mate.

I was going to be quiet, but been one of those days, and I can't keep my fingers from typing this next part. Just think it needs said...

jrobb911, perhaps a little more tact could have been exhibited on your part. He made it clear that he was feeling bad about the whole thing. They made a mistake and they were very aware of it now... unfortunately after the fact, but your words seemed to me to be nothing but rubbing salt in the "wounds". Perhaps I am reading too much into it, if so, please forgive. I just read it kind of harsh on your part.

Peter, please keep us posted on your dad and also let us know when you guys take her for your first spin!

SCWDP911 · SCWDP911's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by peter_soj

Dont really understand the licking part... and excuse my ignorance as I dont know A LOT about cars. Where is the ignition coil? why would it spark the cylinder or such shooting out a fireball?

Peter, the coil is typicaly mounted on the fan shroud next to the distributor, but not completely sure about yours, as some have them on the wall (my car is an 1983 model).

For clarification, when you say the plugs were out, do you mean they were out of the heads but still attached to the plug wires? out of the engine compartment all together but wires still attached to the distributor? or plug wires out of compartment all together?

Hang in there...

SCWDP911 · SCWDP911's Garage

sorry for the crappy picture, but here is what your coil should look like... however, it might not be mounted here.

911st · 03-19-2009, 06:17 PM

So what is the best way to keep a spark out of the motor compartment if testing your CIS.

Pull the small wires off the coil?

Can they spark to?

peter_soj · 03-19-2009, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnJL

Is it too early for a Melbourne fire joke?

Lol, it should be alright as long as it isn't in bad taste. And yes, Victoria does love its fires doesn't it...whether its out of an expensive sports car engine or from some pyromaniac who is not welcome in this world.

Thanks for the kind words Shane, dad got home last night around 11pm. The hospital checked his eyes, throat, nose, and other relevant things. He seemed to be fine, he just has some burns on his face and has lost the small amount of hair he had left at the front. My mum thinks he looks like the dude out of Back to the Future, the doc.

Otherwise he's alright, i'm really glad. I wish the damn thing had of shot the fireball off when he was doing the compression check, so he would only have some burns on his hand, he has no fingerprints left anyway heh.

The spark plugs were out of the car completely, but the wires were still connected to the distributor.