MSD ISSUE... backfires w/no power at all

[RSWiser]

Tell me about the holes in the D-cap.
How many and where. What is the purpose? Heat?

[Rebel911]

The Bosch CDI unit runs ok. I was just looking for a little more spark.

As per the D-cap. I drilled one 1/8 hole at the rotor leave between the post contact and a 1/16 hole on either side of the larger hole. this is to let the charged air in the cap "breath" out.

none of this helped. I did however put the Bosch unit back in and the car runs just like it did before. I will have to start all over with the wiring... that I know I did right.
Anyone in the Rochester, NY area that knows how to set this up please drop me a line.

jmalone1@ferguson.com

[john walker's workshop]

the bosch unit is very good. you don't need more spark.

[Rebel911]

ok here was the check. I put the stock Bosch unit back in, runs fine again.
Guess I am going to go ever the wiring again and try to figure what the issue is.
I have done everything to a tee.
I am truly not impressed with MSD's help or the write up in the book our host wrote, seems clear they never installed one hence no pictures in the book of the install.
It should not come down to unsure possible solutions that come out 2nd hand and that might work or witchcraft to make the unit work.
I have rebuild current computer controlled engines with dozens of sensors that need to be right to run with out a problem.
I am losing confidence that this as a good product; but more of a rip-off.

One more shot next week at the install then I have a $300 paper weight.

[john walker's workshop]

i once talked to a MSD rep who claimed that some 3.0 distributors just didn't work right with MSDs.

have you been shocked with a MSD yet? it's a religious experience. maybe that's what's in those tazers. that alone is enough not to use them.

[Rebel911]

I have yet to be shocked but I have been very wary of the system and potential to be shocked.
Science says I could be kicked on my ass.
john walker's workshop, you sir may get a call this fall for help with my Porsche.
where were you 3 weeks ago.

Truth be told I wish our site sponsor would chime in with REAL helpful info on this mod. since they did write this up the their book as "the single best mod for the 911 SC"
this seems like they are leaving them selves liable for false marketing.
I truly hope they either step up to the plate to offer real info/pics or drop the product for the 911 SC's.

[mb911]

Originally Posted by Rebel911

I have yet to be shocked but I have been very wary of the system and potential to be shocked.
Science says I could be kicked on my ass.
john walker's workshop, you sir may get a call this fall for help with my Porsche.
where were you 3 weeks ago.

Truth be told I wish our site sponsor would chime in with REAL helpful info on this mod. since they did write this up the their book as "the single best mod for the 911 SC"
this seems like they are leaving them selves liable for false marketing.
I truly hope they either step up to the plate to offer real info/pics or drop the product for the 911 SC's.

I have 2 of them in my car(12 plug system) and they work very well as long as they have a good trigger,12V constant,12v acessory,and the correct wire has been clipped under the black cap. They really are not very hard as long as those things are correct. can you send me a picture of your install? I would be curious of what/how you have it wired

[Rebel911]

Originally Posted by mb911

I have 2 of them in my car(12 plug system) and they work very well as long as they have a good trigger,12V constant,12v acessory,and the correct wire has been clipped under the black cap. They really are not very hard as long as those things are correct. can you send me a picture of your install? I would be curious of what/how you have it wired

Tomorrow when I re install the set up I will post up pre-idle video, install pictures and post idle video / drive.

If there is a correct setup or something I am doing wrong I would be glad for some one to correct me.

thanks for offering to help I will take you up on your aid.

[mb911]

Originally Posted by Rebel911

Tomorrow when I re install the set up I will post up pre-idle video, install pictures and post idle video / drive.

If there is a correct setup or something I am doing wrong I would be glad for some one to correct me.

thanks for offering to help I will take you up on your aid.

I believe you that it does not run properly but and curious as to if you cut the correct wire under the cap?if you can post pics of your connections that would help

[Rebel911]

I will post up pictures after my car show today... driving with the CDI.
I cut the red wire under the cap.

since I own all the stuff needed to set this up right I will keep going till this is right then post up pictures with a clear write-up of the process. What information that is supplied is crap.

[Rebel911]

Well got it running great, instructions leave much to be desired from both MSD and the 101 book.
If my engine wasn't so dirty I was post up a nice how to pictorial.

Tomorrow I will try am clean the engine up and put together a nice clear pictorial with write up of the install and how easy it is.

thanks to everyone who put in their $.02

[cole930]

OK, I have heard what a piece of crap the MSD is, I've heard they offer no help and have s----- instructions, I've heard how MSD is a waste of money " $300 paper weight" and the $1200 Bosch is the catch all to end all, and I've heard insinuations our host could be guilty of false advertising and open to liable suites. Then after all the rants I get "well got it running".
So what was the real problem? Usually when there is such a fit about how bad something is and all of a sudden it works great someone just plain F----- Up and doesn't want to admit it. Confession is good for the soul and F------ Up reminds us of the fact we are human.
I have used MSD ignitions on Porsches for years and have never had an ignition failure or any ignition related issues. I'm presently installing a MSD 6AL
6420, MSD 8762 Boost Timing Master , and a MSD 8920 Tach Adapter in a 930.
Over the years I've made wiring diagrams for installing the 6AL so I can make a harness that plugs the MSD directly to the 6 Pin Connector on the engine harness.
Glad to hear your up and running. I'm sure you'll be pleased with the unit. I'd still like to know what the issue was.

Cole

[T77911S]

cant say i got a performance upgrade and did not expect one except that now my car runs. replaced permatune with MSD.
if anyone says MSD's are not good, why do so many racers use them? it cost them a lot more if they break down.
your never going to get a performance upgrade on a stock motor just by changing the cd unit. the bosch was already very good, they are just getting old and the MSD is a cheaper replacement, plus, you can buy 4 msd's at your local parts store for the price of one bosch.

hey JW, mine knocked me on my a@@. that was only equaled by the tube shock i got from my 48 inch tv. i felt the MSD for 2 days.

[john walker's workshop]

Originally Posted by T77911S

why do so many racers use them?

rev limiter.

[Rebel911]

while an am happy to get it running well... it still is not the "single best modification for a Porsche 911 SC" per the book 101... yet.
I do appreciate your previous input on this thread... oh wait you gave none.
Thanks for the Monday morning quarterbacking
In fact the only input I found from you on MSD was:
from Mounting the MSD Ignition System

Originally Posted by cole930

RS,

Do a search for MSD or MSD Install. Lots of info.

Cole

correction Unless I look at the 930 posts.
where A930Rocket seems to have all the info. if anyone needs help look up his posts
Here

I would pay for your information on the wiring and harness that plugs the MSD directly to the 6 Pin Connector

my issue appeared to be EM noise over one of the wires and too much resistance in the rotor. don't get me wrong I am always happy to admit when I am wrong, especially if I have money involved. Once I have the numbers on paper that prove the mod I will have definitive information on dollar for dollar the value of this unit over the stock one.

Once I finish the last oil leak I will be happy to post up dyno sheets with both the CDI unit and the MSD. I really hope the MSD is better. I am always happy to admit when i am wrong. However I either got the worst customer assistance tech from MSD or I have a serious problem reading the two page write up on the "single best modification for a Porsche 911 SC"

Thanks again for your input on this topic and all the valuable information you share.

[scarceller]

IMHO - my bet is you get no dyno improvement from a properly functioning Bosch unit compared to the MSD unit. Reason is simply, so long as any unit can light the mixture that's all that matters. But of course I could be wrong and would love to see side by side dyno runs, I think this would be very interesting test.

The MSD could help a lean mis-fire at idle but that's about it.

However, Turbo cars are a different animal because of much larger cylinder pressures which often require larger plug gaps to get proper ignition, here under these extreme conditions the MSD units could help as they may allow gaps as wide as 0.06". For non-turbo cars I think the MSD vs Bosch CDI is a wash.

Just my opinion of course

[Rebel911]

Originally Posted by scarceller

IMHO - my bet is you get no dyno improvement from a properly functioning Bosch unit compared to the MSD unit.

I do believe you are right. Before the end of the month I hope to have the numbers.

[cole930]

Rebel,

Got a real kick from your reply. I see your new here. WELCOME !!!! and where are the required pics. of your car ?

I didn't realize you were the sensitive type; my apologizes, but if you get on this forum and don't expect to get pimped now and then you need to go to Rennlist.

I also didn't know there were requirements to post replies to a thread and if your playing the post police with a little research you'll find I've posted at least once a week for 9 1/2 years. Our gracious host allows us to post questions, share tall tales, give opinions, and share our passion for the greatest sports car ever created; hense the word FORUM. Opinions are like a-- holes everyone has one, some we agree with and some we don't so read them and if they don't work for you let them go.

Don't expect to see any significant performance gains from the MSD update although you should get better starting, fewer fouled plugs, and reliability that is parallel to the original Bosch unit at a reasonable price. In a 930 application they work well because most owners have rich afr issues at lower rpm and the MSD helps keep the plugs from fouling as easily. Also the MSD Boost Timing Master allow you to retard timing at the onset of boost which helps prevent detonation.

I don't sell the wiring layout for the MSD to 6 pin connector, here we try to share information with everyone who wants it and if you send me an E Mail I would be glad to do a layout for you. I need to know if you are using the MSD 6AL with a tach adapter or not. If you have a tach adapter which model.
cole930@mchsi.com

Cole

[Rebel911]

My apologies, intro link

[ericwitte]

fwiw we had difficulty with the msd in my 3.2 until we hooked up the large external resistor