Need a little 911s help.

HerbyJr · 07-27-2009, 10:55 PM

I'm considering trading a Harley FXDL for a 1977 Porsche 911s. I know my way around vehicles, but I'm new to Porsche. The Porsche owner recently tried to sell the car on ebay and it didn't do very well. You can see the listing here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1977-Porsche-911S-in-Excellent-Stock-Condition_W0QQitemZ200363963163QQcmdZViewItemQQptZ US_Cars_Trucks?hash=item2ea69f731b&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245 It is item number 200363963163 in case the link doesn't work.

I'd just like to get any thoughts about the car. Why didn't it pull a higher bid? I've seen lots of the same model going in the range of his asking price, so is there something about this one that I'm missing?

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

H.

bigsid · bigsid's Garage

the 1977 911s with a 2.7 engine is considered undesirable by most people. The magnesium engine cases tend to warp and pull engine cylinder studs out of the cases ...... very expensive to repair. Most people try to exchange engines for a 3.2 aluminum case engine , as I did. Let the buyer beware .... read up and search the forum for problems with the 2.7 engine . look closely before you leap .

red 2.7 · 07-28-2009, 03:54 AM

Hi I have a 77 911S for the past 3 years and I absolutely love it. I think many people have been frightened off by the head stud problems and it keeps the prices down. If the car is rust free and the rebuild shows case savers installed AND passes a thorough PPI. Go for it but keep it for a while as I said they are difficult to sell. However these cars can only go up in value they don't make 'em any more you know. Good luck, but I warn you once you have one you won't want to drive anything else. There is no substitute.

74-911 · 07-28-2009, 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigsid

Most people try to exchange engines for a 3.2 aluminum case engine , as I did.

I seriously doubt "most people" exchange the 2.7 for a 3.2. I have no stats to back this up but I suspect many more 2.7's have had the required mods made to them. If the 2.7 in the car in question has had casesavers installed and properly rebuilt and the thermal reactors removed, it can be a very reliable engine. You will also find many 2.7's that were never driven in hotter climates and have never had head stud problems.

Red 2.7 is right, if the engine has been properly rebuilt and passes a PPI, the 77 can be a great car.

BK911 · BK911's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigsid

the 1977 911s with a 2.7 engine is considered undesirable by most people.

I wouldn't say undesirable. Maybe the least desirable of the 911s. Sorta like the ugliest super model.

HerbyJr · 07-28-2009, 06:08 AM

Thanks for all your thoughts! You guys are educating me.

Can I tell by looking if the casesavers were installed and the thermal reactors removed, or is this something that the PPI will discover? Can anyone recommend a good shop for the PPI in the Joplin, MO area? There isn't a Porsche dealer, but there are some shops that specialize in European vehicles.

I know that every make and model has its weaknesses, but is there anything else that I should really look for?

Thanks again,

H.

74-911 · 07-28-2009, 07:15 AM

The PPI can tell you if the thermal reactors were removed (or you can look for yourself). As to what has been done to the engine, I would ask the owner for the documentation for the overhaul. Besides the casesavers, a good rebuild would have included the Carrera tensioners. "Engine overhaul" could be anything from a complete rebuild to just replacing the valve guides and a valve job. This is one area you need to know exactly what was done.

Also the PPI should check closely for any transmission issues, i.e. jumping out of gear, etc. Transmission rebuilds are expensive on these cars.

The other major issue with these cars is rust as has been pointed out. Again the PPI should include a thorough inspection of the body.

HerbyJr · 07-28-2009, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 74-911

The PPI can tell you if the thermal reactors were removed (or you can look for yourself).

Can someone please post pictures or diagrams showing me what I'm looking for? Here's a photo of the engine, but I don't have a clue what to look for when it comes to thermal reactors. I thought they were something to do with WMDs!

H.

WilsonTC · 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HerbyJr

Can someone please post pictures or diagrams showing me what I'm looking for? Here's a photo of the engine, but I don't have a clue what to look for when it comes to thermal reactors. I thought they were something to do with WMDs!

Thermal Reactors are underneath.

74-911 · 07-28-2009, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HerbyJr

Can someone please post pictures or diagrams showing me what I'm looking for? Here's a photo of the engine, but I don't have a clue what to look for when it comes to thermal reactors. I thought they were something to do with WMDs!

H.

this looks good. You have the Carrera tensioners and the 11 bladed fan. Some (if not all?) 2.7s in the 75-77 years had a 5 blade fan and it is highly recommended to upgrade to the 11 blade as it pushes more air over the cylinders.

As the next post indicated, the thermal reactors are part of the exhaust system/heat exchangers and can only be seen from underneath the engine.

HerbyJr · 07-28-2009, 09:36 AM

Do these shots of the undercarriage help at all?

?

These are the only underside shots I have. Thanks again!

H.

74-911 · 07-28-2009, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 74-911

As the next post indicated, the thermal reactors are part of the exhaust system/heat exchangers and can only be seen from underneath the engine.

Just noticed the picture of the heat exchangers on the e-bay site. That exhaust system appears to be backdated to the '74 exhaust with Stainless heat exchangers. A VERY desirable upgrade. No thermal reactors and a much more efficient exhaust system...

I can't imagine anyone upgrading to Carrera tensioners, SS backdated exhaust system and 11 bladed fan and not do a full rebuilld including casesavers and everthing else necessary.

As to why it didn't sell? Could just be the general economy has a lot of people sitting on what money they have??

HerbyJr · 07-28-2009, 09:59 AM

Thanks again!
Jack, I really appreciate you coming back several times to look at the photos etc!

If you guys can think of anything else, I'd greatly appreciate you chiming in!

H.

TR · 07-28-2009, 12:54 PM

car looks sweet but are you having a reversed mid life crisis----I want my bike back.

don't tell everybody but narrow bodied cars will be the next collectors items as so may have been trashed for parts

Terry

HerbyJr · 07-28-2009, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terrance Raath

car looks sweet but are you having a reversed mid life crisis----I want my bike back.

don't tell everybody but narrow bodied cars will be the next collectors items as so may have been trashed for parts

Terry

No crisis for me, it is actually my wife's Harley that is on the block. It is this little yellow Dyna going up on the dyno in this picture:

Mine is not going anywhere unless I'm on it!

H.

GaryR · GaryR's Garage

That sure looks like a 3.0L to me, but what do I know! Even has the turbo valve covers on it!

HerbyJr · 07-28-2009, 02:39 PM

Oh, and one more question. He says he has all the air conditioning parts, but they are not installed. He says he bought it that way and the previous owner told him everything worked but needed installation.

Assuming everything works, how hard will installation be and are there any common A/C issues I should know about? If the compressor, etc doesn't work, does anyone have any idea what a worst cost scenario might be?

I really appreciate all the help here!

H.

74-911 · 07-28-2009, 05:14 PM

My '74 doesn't have AC but from reading many posts about AC's on the 70's and even 80's 911s, the AC's pretty much don't, which is why many of them were removed. There are a lot of threads on upgrading AC's and it can apparently get rather expensive to get one to blow cold air.

But then again the AC requirements here in S. TX are quite different than those in the more northern states. YMMV.

Bob Goding · 05:43 PM

It has heater backdate also--looks like somebody who knew what they were doing has had a go at this engine. I see it has an inlet pop off valve -----So verification of the headstud insert status is about all you need .If it runs
great--go for it.

Bobgod
76 2.7

Mike Thomas · 07-28-2009, 05:50 PM

I drove a '77 S and liked it A LOT. There's something nice about the narrow bodies that is hard to quantify. However, the PPI on that car pointed out some pretty serious compression problems, leaking, etc. I offered the seller half his asking price, to accommodate a rebuild (he didn't take it) This one looks like a very sweet car, but the PPI will have to be the deciding factor. Maybe you can get a Pelican to meet you and help you out in addition, perhaps before you even commit to the PPI.

PS - I ended up with a cherry SC. Naturally, I've still managed to put thousands into it

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