New equal length headers
 

If anyone is interested I have come up with a bulletproof true equal length header that should last longer than your car.
These are made using 321 stainless, the same material I use for my 930 headers. 321 is stronger, lighter and handles heat better than T304.
Primary tubes are equal length.
All welding is back-purged so no slag.
Merge collectors are a work of art that rival Burns.
Tube size will be 1.5", 1.625" or 1.75".
Will fit 911, 964, 993 engines.
Secondaries are being developed as we speak and heat exchangers will follow.
These headers are made in America by US laborers to aviation standards. Quality is top priority and longevity should be second to none.
I will post more as develpoment continues.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1253581800.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1253581837.jpg

encore!!!

Wow, looks great Brian! Hey, let me know if you need a stock 3.0L to test a set out on... I am only up the interstate... :D

any idea on cost?

Cost estimate please...
 

I'm saving for SSI's and an M&K, but.... put a good price on a package deal and we'll see. I've yet to see much competition for SSI's.

Cost and warranty thoughts?

Just a thought.........
 

If you will build these (with heat exchangers) with larger diameter tubing than the SSIs use, you will be providing a header for a void in the existing market. Since the SSIs are basically undersized for any displacement over 3.2 liters, those of us that are planning engine rebuilds could start thinking in terms of 3.3 to 3.5 liter short stroke engines! Even though I already have SSIs on my SC, I would spring for a bigger bore set if they fall in approximately the same price range as the SSIs.
Very nice work!

These are not designed to compete with SSI. The SSI heat exchangers are T304 stainless stock replacement long tube headers. These are 321 Stainless medium equal length performance headers with merge collectors.
Yes the available tubing sizes will be 1.5", 1.625", and 1.75".
Pricing will be $1650 for the 1.5" in 321. We will offer optional T304 stainless for $1450.
Heat exchangers will follow and be bolt-on to retro fit in the field and to allow replacement should they become damaged.
I should have a completed version with the secondary pipes in a week or so.
Shane, I plan to do some dyno work using a local race car with a 3.2L Carrera engine but all help is welcome!

Kudos to you Brian for a great idea - I am talking about a bolt on HX retrofit. That is really smart thinking. I love that idea alone.

Of course I threw that offer out there somewhat in jest as I don't take you to be one that has not thought most things through already... however, my car is a stock 83 with only a topend to it's name, so it might be interesting numbers to compare. My car is available if you decide you want to go down that route. You say the word... I am like a dog chasing a ball when someone says "road trip"...;) That would give me a good excuse to check out your monster!:D

They look great!!!! Kevin

Subscribed. As I am planning a rebuild and upgrade, you've got my attention

We need more folks like you to get on the Build and Buy USA Brand . Best of luck with your venture , well done . Now just stay ahead of the offshore counterfeiters:D
Marty

Would these be offered for "off-the-road" use? Otherwise, doesn't there need to be a provision for a catalytic converter? Will smog regs. allow these?

Sherwood

The use of catalytic converters has been designed into these headers. That system is next in line.
Rip-offs are the norm but it will be very difficult for anyone to add in all the features and quality for the price offered. Quality is THE biggest issue with the Asian rip-offs and part of the reason these came to be. These headers are built to aviation standards and I personally do the final QC approval. As with all of my products, for what it is worth, the patent has been applied for.

So the big 'uns for 450 hp supercharged on 3.0 heads?

I don't anticipate there will be many who require the 1.75" version. Maybe 3.8L big bore engines and yes, supercharged engines. The 1.625" primaries will likely be most popular.

I would be interested in seeing the dyno results of this product vs. other options. Specifically the torque curve with an otherwise stock 3.2.

Good luck with your venture, I try to buy USA products when I can.

As many of you know, I'm a snob when it comes to exhausts and I'd be interested in a set when it comes time to replace the B&B's that came with my car.

What kind of cams will work well with medium length primaries?

Hey Brian-
Happy to offer my '86 track car which is running it's original 3.2, for dyno work. Just had it on a Dyno Dynamics machine last month with my 1.625" European Racing headers and Ben's 911R muffler so I have a good baseline (201.5 whp with old but spoton Autothority software.)

And I'd think that my setup is pretty typical of who'd be interested in your headers.

And I'd be interested in the 1.75" headers when I do a 3.6 transplant over the winter.

Just like to point out that longer primaries, ~30", are prefered for revs in the 5-7k region

shorter above that, longer below

A well known race tuner is getting a set so we shall see how they compare to others.
Packaging influenced primary length as did studies of various header designs currently available. All-out racing headers are not optimal for a street car, these are designed to be used on dual purpose cars that may require heat.

Would you consider fabricating a set with 16 ge. aluminized steel - as a low cost alternative to stainless....?

Steel tubing 16 g is strong - and with an aluminized finish holds up surprisingly well 5 years later on a car...almost as good as 304.

Currently, no one makes decent headers in the $350 - $400 range.

SmileWavy

________________

'82 911 - sold
'77 Spitfire
'80 928

A great portion of the cost is labor. No third world labor rates or working conditions with our products. Right now T304 is an option that saves ~$200 per set. We are considering a mild steel option but I'm not too keen on that. Stainless is quality and 321 will out last anything currently on the market. I have a no questions asked 30 day warranty on my products and will work with anyone that has an issue past that point. Could not do that with mild or aluminized steel and would rather not be associated with pictures of rusty headers on the internet a year from now. Adding heat exchangers would simply not be possible due to liability.
You have to consider that these headers will be sold around the globe, in places very prone to rust such as the coastal tropics in the rainy season to Detroit in winter.

Will these use the '74 pattern muffler flanges?

From a sales and marketing perspective, you are spot on.

JB

have you measured the tube length on the SSIs?

also, what is the length on the ones in your pic? and what dia. are they?

Yes the secondary tubes will have the 2-bolt early flange that will attach to OEM style mufflers. We will offer packages that include M&K dual inlet mufflers.
I have measured SSIs but don't recall what it was off the top of my head. They are pretty long tubes. Mine are 17.5" +/- 0.25" primaries. The diameter is 1.5" and will be offered also in 1.625" and 1.75". We are doing a short production run right now in 1.625" size.
If I am on the right track with sales and marketing it is a combination of education and luck. This is just how I see it.

I don't know how much labor is involved with building a nice set of headers, but I imagine it's upwards of 40 hours for an experienced builder if not much more. If I'm going to have someone spend that much time on something for me, I'm not going to skimp on material.

Tooling costs weren't cheap either. 1.625" is not a standard size so all new tooling was needed.

Hey Brian
I'm into it but I have to get the muffler on first, back home in a week so look for my Big Grinn pic, is the heat ready when the pipes are, or is the heat going to come later, I'm looking for the headers and heat at the same time.
Always late
Scott

We are working on the heat exchangers now. They will be bolt-on to retro fit in the field should someone decide after purchase that they want heat of if an exchanger is damaged it can be replaced. I'm from IL and Ben is from WI so we know the value of real heat. The aftermarket headers I have experienced have residual heat at best. Only SSI does a proper job with heat exchangers and that is because they copy the stock configuration.

Hey Brian- will you be building the 1-3/4 headers with flipped flanges for the 993 engines? (for those of us doing a 3.6 conversion)

sub

i don't know Brian's operation, but unless he's doing this for fun and fabricating each piece from scratch, I'm sure he's figured out a way to produce a quality product in much less time, not to mention his cost for material, manufacturing space, equipment overhead and everything else needed to run a business.

This "skimp on material" comment sounds too much like the commonly used and equally ambiguous, "you get what you pay for" statement. A choice of materials is based on functionality and cost effectiveness. And while mild steel is on the lower end of the exhaust material spectrum, it may work perfectly well for some applications (e.g. factory heat exchangers, club racing, etc.). However, Brian has identified the aftermarket segment he wants to serve and his cost/effective solution is based on that and other considerations. Personally, I think he's chosen wisely.

If special needs dictate not "skimping" on material, ask Brian to skip the 321 and proceed directly to versions in titanium or inconel.

Sherwood

Points all well taken.
We had an order for Inconel and did all the research and setup. This is the only material that significantly raised the price of the end product; it was doubled. Inconel is 4x the price of 321 so that gives you an idea on production costs vs raw material costs.
We have no Honda/ricer products so cannot parasitise raw materials or tooling from another huge line like the Asian manufacturers do. This product is designed to be low volume and high quality. That is what it must be to differentiate itself from the less expensive options. Great effort has been put forward to address all of the existing issues found in aftermarket headers. Customer service is also paramount in this niche market. You're paying for more than a set of pipes.

Yes we will build 1.75" headers with flipped flanges for 964/993 conversions.

Here is a picture of a header mounted and one with the secondary pipes welded onto the collector:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1253757816.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1253757894.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1253757927.jpg


It looks like a set of 1.75" headers may be going on this RSR engine:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1253758114.jpg

Here is a link to the thread started by Ben:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/501036-new-911-header-sneak-peak.html

That sounds very interesting. I would be interested in the 1.75" heat exchangers please drop me a PM when you are getting close to having them done. I am running SSI's on my 3.6 in my 74 911 and have been told many times that some 1.75's would really wake up the 3.6. If they will bolt in at the stock muffler location then I absolutely want a pair. The biggest thing that has kept me from upgrading to something like the B&B is I would have to hassle with changing the rear muffler exit and since I spent a small fortune making that fiberglass bumper fit right etc I really dont want to ever modify it.

Yes Larry the 1.75" units will look the same as the 1.5" units pictured. They will mate up to a stock dual inlet muffler.

I've been waiting for something like this to come around... glad I held off on the SSI's. I'm definitely interested in a set with heat exchangers!

Cheers!