911 SC owners! What did you decide on for your suspension refresh?

[oregonmon]

I want to "refresh" my all orginal 79 SC suspension. I've read quite a few posts from a search but would still like to hear what some decided on after their research. Also, post your feedback after driving impressions please.

My driving is spirited street, arrive and drives with the local PCA, autocross and maybe my first DE this year. Budget is limited, but what I am leaning towards is

Bilstein HD inserts ( I assume this is a must)
OEM rubber mounts bushings for torsion bars
OEM rubber bushings for front and rear upper strut mounts
OEM rubber a arm bushings
Turbo tie rod kit.

I'm hoping this will tighten things up but I'm not sure to what degree. Nothing seems out of wack but have not assessed the wear on the current bushings.

I hear the polybronze bearing mount arguement but I don't think my budget can support it.
How the car looks while cornering.

[RWebb]

to save $$, I think I'd delete the rear mods for now and do up the front in Polybronze

delete the turbo tie rods too if need be

[glewis80SC]

Nice car first of all. I went the big route and did the tbars and adjustable sway route, but before that I added Bilstein Sports all around and turbo tie rods. Post tie rods i did not see much of a difference but after the Bilsteins i say a big difference, it just stiffened the ride up nice for me. I've stayed with OEM bushings for now, I know bigger tire and rubber are some of the best bang for the buck difference, it looks like you have 8's or 9's in back all ready though. Like most say it is more seat time that will improve your driving the best. Good luck.

[oregonmon]

glewis,
I have the 7 and 8x16 on the car and just run street tires. Though I sure wish I had dedicated tires.
So you had Bilstein sports on with stock torsion bars? OEM bushings too?
How was that, because I hear the Bilsteins sports are strictly for the larger torsion bars? Was it rough or unsettled?

[HarryD]

Oregon,

If it was me, I would consult with Steve and Jeff. They will help you get the most bang for your budget.

When you are done stuffing the parts on, you will want to send it to the Gamroth Spa for a proper chassis tuning.

As far as what parts, your plan and my comments:

Bilstein HD inserts ( I assume this is a must) - good (go with sports on the rear)
OEM rubber mounts bushings for torsion bars (ok or you can use Neatrix)
OEM rubber bushings for front and rear upper strut mounts (why? If not worn, don't wste the money)
OEM rubber a arm bushings (why? The front is faily light, you may not need them)
Turbo tie rod kit. (Only if current tie rods are worn).

When I did my suspension a few years back it was new Bilsteins all around (HD/Sport combo) and Neatrix for the rear torsions followed by a trip to Gamroths. New rubber and voila!

[Halm]

I would skip the polybronze stuff until you decide you want a more DE / AX oriented car. Otherwise I would only change the rear Bilstein's to Street and move to 26mm torsion bars. My previous SC had that setup (recommended by TRE and done by them) and it was a delight to drive.

[arbita1]

My car use is pretty much the same as yours and here is what I have:

Turbo Tie Rods
22mm Front/29mm Rear Torsion Bars
Bilstein Sport Shocks - Valved by Smart Racing to match torsion bars
22mm Front/21mm Rear Carrera sway bars
Neatrix Rear Bushings
Aligned/Corner Balanced a bit more aggressive
7/9 x 16 wheels with 205/55 and 245/45 tires (although for Autox I use 7/8 x 15 with 205/50 and 225/45 track tires).

I like it a lot. It's just a little bit harsh on the street, but great for autox.

[KNS]

I went with pretty much OE rubber everywhere except ER poly bronze in the rear spring plate bushings. Turbo tie rods as well. The biggest improvement in steering feel was not the new tie rods but new ball joints! Bilstein HDs all round. I did a DE over the weekend and a proper alignment is also a must. After eight years of ownership the car feels nicer than ever. Even the Porsche mechanic that did the alignment commented on how nice my car felt.

[brads911sc]

Consult with Chuck at Elephant.

I went with a complete Street Performance Package 2. It was about 2800, plus the alignment/cb. About 3500 total. I did all the work myself.

I would do it again. Not at all rough.

[500_19B]

I’m in the midst of SLOWLY upgrading my suspension using a list pretty similar to yours. As it is not done yet, I can’t comment on what worked well etc.

However, I would definitely consider the front A-arm bushings. It is not at all uncommon for the bushings to have sagged enough that the torsion bar starts to rub on the cross-member. Many people have posted photos of this. Left to progress, it will put a groove in the torsion bars that will be a stress riser and ultimately may lead to breakage of the bar.

In my case (~100K miles, 1985 Carrera) I did see that this had happened and ended up sourcing a pair of replacement bars just to be sure.

My list (FWIW) is:

Rear trailing arm bushings (OEM)
Elephant Racing rubber OEM spec bushings for front A-arms and rear spring plates
OEM stock sway bar bushings
Ball joints
Turbo tie rod kit
Bilstein HD front / Sport rear
Wheel bearings all four corners
I am also rebuilding the brakes while I am at it

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by arbita1

My car use is pretty much the same as yours and here is what I have:

Turbo Tie Rods
22mm Front/29mm Rear Torsion Bars
Bilstein Sport Shocks - Valved by Smart Racing to match torsion bars
22mm Front/21mm Rear Carrera sway bars
Neatrix Rear Bushings
Aligned/Corner Balanced a bit more aggressive
7/9 x 16 wheels with 205/55 and 245/45 tires (although for Autox I use 7/8 x 15 with 205/50 and 225/45 track tires).

I like it a lot. It's just a little bit harsh on the street, but great for autox.

Oregonmom,

Just the Carrera sway bars upgrade will make a big difference in your car's handling characteristics. The SC sway bars are 20/18 mm (front/rear) while the later Carrera's are 22/21 mm. Very noticeable difference after the installation.

Tony

[Superman]

My current setup:

22/29 hollow torsion bars
Late Carrera sways
Turbo torsion bars
Polybronze front control arm bushings
Neatrix rear

The car feels wonderful. The next upgrade will be shocks. My shocks are not very old, and they are Bilstein HD's (which retain their function wonderfully over time), but the stiffer torsion bars overpower them. Properly valved shocks are VERY important. Talk with folks like Steve W. He's forgotten more about these cars than I will ever know. When I revalve my shocks, I may send them to Steve for his proprietary valving formula.

If you decide on keeping your front torsion bars and upgrading to rear bars from a Turbo (26mm, I think), then I've got a pair you can have for cheap. I'm not far from you.

[na2ub]

I am doing the same thing right now to my 79 sc. One of my bilstein strut leaked, and I decided it was time to tighten everything down, after 9 years of ownership. My list is simple, and I hope to get everything installed (myself) for about $1,100.

Front ER rubber T-bar bushings ($225)
Rear ER rubber T-bar (springplate) bushings ($75)
22 mm front T-bars ($240)
29-mm rear T-bars ($260)
Send struts to Bilstein for a rebuild for new T-bar specs ($75x4)

I have already installed turbo tie rods (although this is a steering componend, not a suspension component). I plan on getting the bigger Carrera sway bars in the future, but not right now (budget!).

Hopefully I can get everything done and paid for by the end of summer. Ever since I bought the car, I always have wished it would drive more like the supercar it could be, rather than a car spec'd for the consumer (soft ride) with a tired out suspension as well.

Doug

[oregonmon]

THanks guys for the replies, I know this has been gone over a lot.
Superman, I may take you up on that. I've heard you can just up the rear bar with leaving the front stock, which is 19? Correct?
Would a Bilstein sport in the back and HD in the front be a good setup?
Then rubber bushings all around, turbo tie rods?

[oregonmon]

If my strut inserts aren't too bad, is it better/economical to send away for rebuild?

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by oregonmon

If my strut inserts aren't too bad, is it better/economical to send away for rebuild?

If you have bilsteins in there now, it is a good way to go.

Like I said above, talk to Steve Weiner and Jeff Gamroth. They are local for us and they know their stuff.

[Steve@Rennsport]

Ryan,

I do recollect a detailed and lengthy conversation on this subject last Thursday evening,....

The VERY first thing I ask my clients is: "Whats your budget?", as that frames all the advice I can offer. It does little good to suggest things that will not happen due to economic reasons.

At the very least, you should do bushings, shocks, turbo tie-rods, and slightly larger torsion bars. If you have any $$ after that, install late-model Carrera swaybars & bushings.

With a properly done cornerweight & alignment, you will be stunned how good the will be.

[oregonmon]

Thanks Steve and everyone else for your response. I think I'm getting a pretty good idea what direction I'm going to go. I'm not quite sure about the torsion bar size though, more research to be done. But I think OEM rubber is sufficient for my applications, and I'm going to contact Bilstein about rebuilding my shocks but I guess I will need to know what torsion bar size before sending them in.

[88 Club Sport]

Handles like a go cart and great for Sunday canyon blasts but might not be everyone taste for a daily driver:

Turbo tie rods
Tarret Sways
23F / 31R torsion
Poly bushing w/zerks
Bilstein Inserts (Sent to Bilstein for matching to the torsion/sways)
7's w 225/50's and 8's w 245/45's - R1's
Corner balanced etc.

[Superman]

Originally Posted by oregonmon

Superman, I may take you up on that. I've heard you can just up the rear bar with leaving the front stock, which is 19? Correct?
Would a Bilstein sport in the back and HD in the front be a good setup?

Yes, you can just use the 26mm rear with the stock front, and it makes a subtle difference. And yes, I suppose this can be combined with fresher shocks to improve handling. But......as always, Steve's advice is right on. Shocks make the ride harsher than bars do, though simple HD's and Sports will not make the ride offensive. But those shocks would not be valved properly for the 22/29 bars that will probably be necessary to make you happy.

I found late Carrera sways bars fairly cheap. Whenever a late Carrera is substantially upgraded, like for track, a pair become available. Or when one is wrecked, sadly.

As Steve says the sort of setup I have and many others have really makes a much more stable and balanced car. I am very happy so far. I sprung for the torsion and sway bars and dealt with the bushings, but left the shocks undone to save money. I can do that later, and it will improve the car even more.