Autodesk Inventor - Interesting Photo

unclebilly · unclebilly's Garage

I am removing Inventor 2009 from my computer to clear up some space. Autodesk has pictures that flash through during the install / uninstall.

This one is pretty interesting. especially since I doubt that Porsche uses Inventor...

Looks like 993 engine assembly?

racer_X · racer_X's Garage

I thought Porsche engineers used Pro E in the 90s. I know the designers used CDRS to do the surfaces for the Boxster.
Not sure what they are using now......

1990C4S · 11-10-2009, 11:19 AM

CATIA is pretty much standard now. Mercedes, Honda, BMW, VW, GM (I think), Chrysler. etc.

I bet they use that.

tcar · 11-10-2009, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1990C4S

CATIA is pretty much standard now. Mercedes, Honda, BMW, VW, GM (I think), Chrysler. etc.

I bet they use that.

And the Guggenheim Bilbao museum and the Denver Art Museum...

kolies · kolies's Garage

GM is actually using UGS. I think that there are at least 1-2 other Auto companies that use them as well, like Fiat.

jsoderbe · 11-10-2009, 12:52 PM

Hi guys,

Most automotive companies uses some kind of Autodesk software, even though other CAD vendors are used for designing the actual cars. Autodesk Inventor is often used for designing tools, machines, factory layouts, automation and so on.

The automotive industry is maybe the most competitive industry of them all, which make sure they don't use a super expensive solution for designing stuff an ordinary AutoCAD could do for a fraction of the cost.

Most car manufacturers use Autodesk Alias Automotive for conceptual design and/or surface modeling, and maybe Porsche is one of them?

I'm working for Autodesk, so I'm biosed....

Unfortunately not in Germany, so I can't sneek in to a Porsche factory.

Regards,

Johan

DW SD · 11-10-2009, 02:21 PM

I think those are 964 engines. 964 had aluminum valve covers. I think 993 has plastic.
Maybe I'm wrong.
Cool picture, nonetheless.

Doug

1990C4S · 11-10-2009, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsoderbe

Most car manufacturers use Autodesk Alias Automotive for conceptual design and/or surface modeling...

Regards,

Johan

No, they don't use Autodesk. Maybe for plant layout, maybe for concepts. Body and structure for production are almost all CATIA now. Tcar is correct. G.M. is still UGS.

mkossler · 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsoderbe

Hi guys,

Most automotive companies uses some kind of Autodesk software, even though other CAD vendors are used for designing the actual cars.

Nope.

They use CATIA, UG (Really, NX) and IDEAS. Inventor is not in the same class, sorry - not to say it's a bad MCAD tool but it plays in the Solidworks / SolidEdge / Microstation (and now, Pro/E Wildfire) arena.

EDIT:

Reading your post again, I'll take it back. It is not uncommon to use Autodesk products for ancillary designs. I sure as hell wouldn't recommend doing tooling in it especially given how important tooling is in the high-production automotive environment, unless you don't want to do the design in-context. Outside of that, derivative drawings would make reasonable sense.

unclebilly · unclebilly's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsoderbe

Hi guys,

I'm working for Autodesk, so I'm biosed....

Regards,

Johan

Good - now I know who to email / pm every time this overpriced $h!t crashes on me...

unclebilly · unclebilly's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by DW SD

I think those are 964 engines. 964 had aluminum valve covers. I think 993 has plastic.
Maybe I'm wrong.
Cool picture, nonetheless.

Doug

I dunno about that - I'm pretty sure my 964 doesn't have plastic (or black) timing chain covers.

Tyson Schmidt · 11-10-2009, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unclebilly

I dunno about that - I'm pretty sure my 964 doesn't have plastic (or black) timing chain covers.

Definitely 964. Look at the plug wire routing.

Those aren't plastic chain housings. They never used plastic. That is what the magnesium looked like when it was new. It's a coating.

dtxscott · 11-10-2009, 05:00 PM

The 993 has black plastic valve covers. So I'm betting they are 964 variants.

racer_X · racer_X's Garage

Yeah- AutoDesk bought Alias a couple of years ago, which has been the standard for all Industrial Designers in the US to do the car bodies for the last 15 years. Chrysler engineers used Catia, GM engineers used UG and Ford was ProE.
I was at the Detroit auto show in the 90s when Porsche introduced the Boxster. I had dinner with the lead industrial designer. They were using Pro Designer (CDRS) to do the CAD for the bodies and interiors. They switched to ICEM at some point, then to Ideas I think.

mkossler · 11-10-2009, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by racer_X

Yeah- AutoDesk bought Alias a couple of years ago, which has been the standard for all Industrial Designers in the US to do the car bodies for the last 15 years. Chrysler engineers used Catia, GM engineers used UG and Ford was ProE.
I was at the Detroit auto show in the 90s when Porsche introduced the Boxster. I had dinner with the lead industrial designer. They were using Pro Designer (CDRS) to do the CAD for the bodies and interiors. They switched to ICEM at some point, then to Ideas I think.

I appreciate your efforts here to do some categorizing, but just a couple tweaks

.

Alias Wavefront is a styling tool, not a CAD tool. Its cool factor is off the charts, but it's really meant to come up with some pleasing geometry and rendering, the geometry of which can be imported as surfaces / skins into selected CAD tools to do the real work.

Ford was IDEAS. It went to CATIA a few years ago for selected models. It never used Pro Engineer as a primary design tool. You have to keep in mind that all complex product manufacturers will be heavily influenced by their data management software when they pick their CAD tool(s). Ford has never ever been a Windchill house.

ICEM, better known as ICEM Surf, is a lightweight rendering / visulization tool that also is not CAD. ICEM was bought by Dassault Systemes, the owner of CATIA, and is now marketed as 3DVIA. They should have bought Right Hemisphere. One guy's opinion.

1990C4S · 11-10-2009, 06:51 PM

Yea, what he said. ^^^^

Dassault seems to be taking over...

jsoderbe · 11-11-2009, 12:44 AM

Hi all,

Unfortunately you guys might be right about CATIA/Dassault on Automotive customers, I don't argue with that.

However, outside Automotive there is another play field.

Porsche is an Autodesk CAD customer and an Alias user. As said before, Alias isn't a CAD system, it's a concept design/Surface modelling tool. I don't think they where a Alias user in the 90ies, since we bought Alias just a couple of years ago. Before that I believe it was GM owned.

Besides that, thanks for great information! This message board keeps surprising me in a positive way; now I know there are a lot of CAD experts here too....

Thanks,

Johan