power window project - motor question

[steely]

Hi guys - I finally started shutting her down for the winter , so I also started working on addressing the power windows as an initial project this season. I was wondering if I should, or even can, do anything to the motor other than cleaning the external gear?

Now I read a lot about the window issues here, and I plan to remove the regulators, de-gunk and re-lube, and even replace the felt and rubber in a bunch of places, as well as the plastic joint cups that go between the linkages. I also followed the advice of besidethebox and made my own spring retainers (the white-metal pressed-in tension keepers that pop out and look suspiciously like a pivot pin). From what I did read, once everything else was cleaned and re-lubed, I would recoup apparently lost window motor power, but I was just wondering if there was anything I could do to the motor w/o wrecking it - like cleaning inside it or replacing brushes. I did a couple of searches, but I didn't see anything obvious.

I have the passenger side regulator out and quit this evening, leaving the motor in the door, so I didn't even inspect it yet to see if it was 'sealed'. Thanks.

[sc_rufctr]

I wouldn't open the motors. Just get them nice and clean and grease as a appropriate.

I have heard of people opening them up and replacing brushes etc but only do this if they are not working.

With the work you have planned I'm sure they'll perform almost like new.
Just remember these are not modern cable power windows that operate quickly.

I've always liked the "genteel" way the operate. Slow, quiet and classy! (I know I'm strange)

[steely]

Thanks Peter - I like to call it "character", but "genteel" has a nice ring to it.

That's all I wanted to hear - sometimes I tinker too much.

[sc_rufctr]

Originally Posted by steely

.... - sometimes I tinker too much.

lol... I can relate.

You're welcome.

[mppickett]

I had a window motor seize in my '82. I carefully took it apart, cleaned out the old gunk, and relubed with white lithium grease. Be careful to keep the grease off of the brushes. Worked like new. Sorry, no pics.

[mpetry]

The motors are easy to overhaul and respond really well to some grease and a bit of cleaning. It's just a wiper motor, you know. Also you can clean out the little reduction gear thingie.

By far the hardest part is getting the regulators out of the car. Once that is done the rest is easy. But you'll be really glad you did this - 100% reliable windows after going thru them.

Be sure to test run it on the workbench before putting it in, you can do that with a battery.

[RWebb]

I'd inspect the brushes also - a good elec. motor repair shop should be able to do all this, or provide parts. Be sure to tell them it is a "furrin' metric motor"...

BTW - could you weigh your motors on a postal scale or similar?

- there is a long-running question as to how much wt. is added by the motors

[mpetry]

the motors are heavy - I'd guess 5-6 lb with the little gearbox.

I looked at the brushes - mine were hardly touched. Remember the duty cycle on these things is like 5 seconds per hour.

A general cleanup, lube and test helped a lot. The regulators were all gummed up.

[steely]

Thanks for the input guys - after looking at the motor and gear box, the 2 can be separated.
There are 2 small torx screws and a gasket involved joining them. There's also a small screw mounted in the gearbox mtd axially to the motor shaft - as if it could be an adjustable bearing?

The gear box has a pc of galvanized metal covering one entire side and is press fit onto the box. The box is cast and guide pins for the cover were peened to secure the cover. I haven't dismantled any on this yet, but maybe after Christmas I give it a whirl to clean inspect and re-pack. I am open to suggestions on how to re-peen the cover pins.

I cleaned and mounted the one regulator in my vise, and got my BesideTheBox (pelicanite) special spring retainer in with a little effort. I tried using string to compress the spring from another post (loop and pull), but I wound up using an 8" length of copper tubing flattened on one end. It's all together and ready for lube and install once I get the door interior prepped - not there yet.

With the holidays here, I temporarily lost my camera download cable (usb) !!!, so I'll send pics once I find it. Would like an opinion on the retainer once I can display it.

RWebb
I weighed the motor and gear box on my wife's Salter food scale (cleaned and bagged) ;-). I read 31.2 oz (each of 3 or 4 attempts). That's 1.95 lb. Scale is good for ~6lbs.


I'll be offline for the next couple of days. but I promise I will be back.
Merry Christmas & Happy holidays to everyone and thanks again.

[RWebb]

Thanks!

Your data has been assimilated by the Borg.

[scotricker]

My car's windows are not powered by motors, just hand crankers. But the passenger side is getting harder to work all the time. I guess I'll just take it all apart and clean in there as mentioned. What about replacing parts? i'll check pelican for new stuff for in there.

[steely]

Scot,

I did the research over the summer and forgot some stuff - but I wound up writing down my approach. I had to tailor for a Targa, as well as the parts, but here is a list of what I ordered: maybe it'll help.
993-531-563-00-M100 $0.50 10 $5.00
" Plastic Clip for Lock Rod, 928, Brand: Genuine Porsche"

----------------------------------------------------------------------
911-531-931-42-M136 $7.50 1 $7.50
" Targa, Cabriolet, Window Outer Seal, left, 911/912 (1968-89). Must be"
24 1/2 inches.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
911-531-932-42-M136 $7.75 1 $7.75
" Targa, Cabriolet, Window Outer Seal, right, 911/912 (1968-89) Must be"
24 1/2 inches

----------------------------------------------------------------------
911-542-505-40-M136 $7.50 4 $30.00
" Targa, Cabriolet Vertical Window Channel Felt, left or right, Front"
" (1978-89), Rear (1987-89)"

The above is mainly seals and stuff, I also bought some white lithium and dri-lube (graphite/moly-b spray). I did not buy any spring pivots, but I did need to make a new spring retainer as the old one fell out. I am guessing when I say that the manual windows need a spring too. I just planned to clean the window lift regulator, but I might wind up doing the window as well, but I wasn't originally planning to do this.

[scotricker]

Thanks Dan, that's an awesome list. Saves some headaches there. Maybe I should order the parts first, and then start tearing into the doors!

[steely]

Am moving slowly on this window project. For good or bad, I did open and inspect the motor. No real wear to speak of on the motor or the gear itself.
I cleaned and repacked the gear with multipurpose grease.
There is no second bearing on the motor itself as the shaft is very long and a worm gear which rests in the gear case. The gear case has the second bearing, so when you separate the 2, the armature is pulled against the magnet unsupported.
To remove the motor from the case, I removed the 2 torx screws, and then I gently slid /pried the plastic terminal board from the motor case. The brushes were in great shape as was the commutator. Unless you have real problems, I don't think it's necessary anymore to open it up - so I don't plan on doing the second motor or gear box.

I will permatex the gear box cover and I may install some light duty machine bolts to re-secure the case as the white metal peened pins were destroyed during the process. I had filed their sides to gain access and save meat, but 2 popped right off. No pic of the motor, but I'll throw one up of the gear box (plastic main gear with a metal and rubber insert to drive the reduced gear to the window regulator). I do attach a simple sketch.

[dyerkes]

I know this is an old thread, but I am in the process of cleaning my window motors, and upon re-assembly the spring clip located at the armature end of the shaft got damaged. Does anybody know where these can be sourced? I have test run the motor without the spring clip, and although it seems to operate well it is noisy.
Picture from Dan's post.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads16/window+motor+gear+dwg1262148076.jpg


Thanks,
David
1987 911 Targa

[dyerkes]

Here are two pictures, one showing the spring clip located at the bottom of the armature housing, and the other showing the damaged clip I removed along with the armature that is supposed to be held in place by the spring clip.

[jvandyke]

I know, old thread, I decided it was a good idea to take the motor off the gear box, it was not. I can't get it back in to mesh with the worm gear, it's hanging up and I can't figure out why. I guess I'll pull the regulator again and take it to the bench, maybe the end of the worm gear isn't getting into whatever bearing is on the gearbox side?