Considering converting 930 to Normally aspirated street killer

[herman maire]

400+ N/A hp is going to cost a friking fortune to build with a air cooled engine, $40-50k at least.

Your best bet is building up your turbo engine, you need to go drive a properly built turbo car , they will blow your mind when set up right, with the correct compression, turbo's, cams, injection ect... it will be a night and day difference. Throw in a 5 speed transmission to really make things come alive.

A water cooled engine is not something I would consider. You should post this question the the turbo section to get some really good feed back on what a well built turbo is like. I say KEEP the turbo or sell the car.

good luck

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by sscates

Hey guys, need your help. I have a really nice 1982 930 that has 50k original on it. I have had it for almost 7 years now and have had a great time driving it, not as a daily driver though.

I really want a normally aspirated, wide body car. Something that is very spartan, set up to DE if I want or autocross. I have always considered selling my 930 and getting something else. Family keeps saying no, don't sell it, but I would rather sell it and get something different. I really don't want the 930 to be family heirloom. Already done that with a 61 Vette.

Am I outta line thinking to rip the motor out and sell it, to pick up a spiced up 3.8? Take out the interior and make it light? It already has the good brakes, or atleast good compared to my sc track car.

What are the cons from your point of view? This is obviously a euro 930, so it's value is less than non euro. Another point is that my car is in california but smog exempt due to historic plates, so it won't ever need to be smogged again unless laws change, which is feasible I guess.

I'm ready to tear into this thing, but have some serious hesitation due to the condition of the car. It's a completely unmolested car. Bone stock and original everything. What do you guys think?

The platform is a great start, but

400 n/a rwp is going to cost ~$50k
you will also want a trans to replace the 4spd 930, there's another $10k or more depending on what you get.

of course the down side is dealing w/ late model emissions regs, the earlier the car the less red tape is involved w/ it

why not see if you can trade the 930 for a GT3 +$60k

[wdfifteen]

+1 on all these comments:

Sell it and buy the car you really want. You will spend major $$, plus your time and frustration, and will end up with an unoriginal car likely worth less than it is now. – Blackie911

Ripping into an original 930 to do this is BS, IMHO. Of course you can do with it what you want, since you own it, – aigel

Leave the 930 alone and buy a project car to work on. It's like pouring water into a Chateau Pétrus '68. It's just not right. – Geronimo ‘74

M491 carrera - start from there - don't kill a good low mileage turbo – Jeremy D

I agree that you should leave the car as it is. I know everyone is saying do what you want, but hey, you asked. As for a 930 being a good starting point, well, there are a lot of aftermarket updates that would minimize the benefit that you have. As for the Brakes, a Brembo GT kit would be better, and the entire suspension could be swapped for ERP stuff. The way I see it, as soon as you start to track the car most of the stuff that is better in the 930 will slowly be replaced anyway. It is like a sickness with these cars.

so +1 to keep it original and find another car to track. – JonesB930

I say KEEP the turbo or sell the car. – Herman Maire

[wdfifteen]

If I had a nice low mileage 930 and someone was going to trash one I'd say go for it - more spare parts for me plus the value of my car goes up. :-)

Another consideration - if you keep the 930 and build up another car, you'll have a Porsche Turbo to drive while the project sits on jackstands.

[hoyabear]

Seems to me like the best bet would be to find a built shell (bodywork and cage mostly done) w/ parts that someone already started as a project and lost interest in...save time and $$$ that way, plus you can put the best susp/brake/tranny/etc parts in from the get-go. I've seen a few examples of these go for under $10K. Throw in $65K worth of engine, tranny, running gear and paint and you will have one hell of a hot rod. Probably take 1/2 the time and 2/3 of the money (assuming you sell your 930 for ~$25K) to do it this way as opposed to the other way...and you get to keep a car to drive while the project is underway!

[javadog]

You should leave the turbo alone. It's very rare to find one in stock condition and one that could be used in California with no hassles. I recently sold a similar one and yours can be sold for $35k, if it has no issues. These cars will be going up in value soon and I think it's financial suicide to take what you have and turn it into a track car. Utterly pointless.

Since you have a track car already I would suggest one of two options. One, modify the track car you already have, as it wouldn't really be more expensive to do that, than to modify the turbo. There are lots of things on a turbo that you'd want to change to make it into a track car, if you get right down to it. There is a school of thought, among some people, that the suspension geometry of the turbo isn't as desirable on the track, anyway.

Or, sell the track car (and sell the turbo, if you don't want to keep it) and buy a used GT3. You'll be closer to your goals and it's a better track car in every way.

JR

[Kemo]

since you already have an SC track car, why not sell your 3.0L motor to a good home and get a low mileage 3.6 engine? Sell the P&Cs from the 3.6 for the 3.8 set to offset costs. The SC sounds like a better place to start since it comes with a 5 speed tranny and is already track ready. Strip down the SC to fighting weight and you are good to go. Also, I have seen many many widebody conversions on cars with virtually no upgrades to the suspension or engine. These cars sometimes sell for less than a stocker for lack of originality. Just another option.
In any event, it looks like you will have a really cool project comming up. Post some pics when you get started.

[euro911sc]

NO NO NO dont kill the turbo. It sounds just too nice. If you must, sell it off and let it live on as intended. Then go get a blown turbo roller or something like that. Finding an M491 car will not be easy or cheap and I think they are more rare then turbos!! The turbo roller will give you everything you want and nothing you don't Since you will be going through everything do not be concerned over milage or past history as long as it is straight.

As for 400hp NA... try the motor board for some great ideas.

-Michael

[benp911]

Just add a 5speed trans and up your hp a little and you will love the 930!

[JMatta]

I agree not to destroy an original turbo; better to buy a track or project car as your basis, as the suspension is likely done and the interior would be gutted.

Or you could buy my brother -in-laws 74 IROC look car...widebody, nice suspension, sparse interior with rollbar and a euro 3.2. Car is a blast to drive and make a great platform to expand upon.

[Elombard]

Take a peak on the Turbo forum first. Especialy look at Rarlyl8's web site. I have been wrenching on an 87 and here is what I was thinking if I owned one.

1.) High flow exhaust right off the turbo (saves huge wt and spools faster).
2.) modern dump valve (much lighter)
3.) modern Intercooler that incorporates modern BOV and removes weird factory piston BOV.
4.) FG bumpers
5.) remove rear wiper and ac compressor
6.) do the standard lt wt interior w/ rear seat delete.
7.) 17" fuchs
8.) down the road maybe custom valve Bilstiens, torsions and adjustable sways, quality OEM bushings or better from elephant or similar.

Keep all of the old stuff in carfeful storage, all of this stuff is easily reversible and it will take 500 lbs out of the car. the motor changes will increase the spool speed and make it act more like a NA car. You could do it all for $10K??

[look 171]

Originally Posted by sscates

Hey guys, need your help. I have a really nice 1982 930 that has 50k original on it. I have had it for almost 7 years now and have had a great time driving it, not as a daily driver though.

I really want a normally aspirated, wide body car. Something that is very spartan, set up to DE if I want or autocross. I have always considered selling my 930 and getting something else. Family keeps saying no, don't sell it, but I would rather sell it and get something different. I really don't want the 930 to be family heirloom. Already done that with a 61 Vette.

Am I outta line thinking to rip the motor out and sell it, to pick up a spiced up 3.8? Take out the interior and make it light? It already has the good brakes, or atleast good compared to my sc track car.

What are the cons from your point of view? This is obviously a euro 930, so it's value is less than non euro. Another point is that my car is in california but smog exempt due to historic plates, so it won't ever need to be smogged again unless laws change, which is feasible I guess.

I'm ready to tear into this thing, but have some serious hesitation due to the condition of the car. It's a completely unmolested car. Bone stock and original everything. What do you guys think?

Sorry, I know is off topic but Ihad to ask. How did you get Historic plates for an 82. All historic plate do not need to be smog. maybe we can start another thread. Thanks

Jeff

[GaryR]

I'll join the leave the turbo alone, sell it, and move on. If you want to build a light, fast, track car pick up a late model Carerra in nasty shape (with a G50/LSD to handle 300+ HP). Have turbo flares added all around and get som 9/11" wheels and tires to match. Put a set of Fox (relatively cheap) coil overs to start (with appropriate reinforcements, go all monoball and polybronze, swap the brakes to Zuffenhaus's or Big Reds (maybe a bigger or dual MC too). Now you have a package that can handle bigger HP. The engine HP is directly proportional to your spend limit. I will say 300+/- RWHP is "reasonable" but going higher will not only cost you exponentially more but long term reliability has to suffer.

Personally I would have a G50 and a Target shifter installed, put a better turbo and adjustable Tial with tuned headers, a bigger intercooler, and it's a new car.. come to think of it, that's exactly what I did to the "Pumpkin".. and a wee bit more.

[Goth]

I have no connection to this person, but check this one out in the Pelican cars for sale section: FOR SALE - 3.6 Varioram Conversion 911 SC (current asking price is $24,900 USD)

You could sell yours and buy this hot rod for a lot less. No wide fenders, but you may not care when your passing everybody.

[sscates]

Awesome response guys. Gotta go fly for a couple hours then I'll provide more input this evening. Thanks.

[David]

I've considered this and mine's a '79. Maybe I just need a 5-speed.

My vote is to do it.

I would use a stock 3.6 engine & tranny with ITB's and headers. Get it all sorted before tearing into the engine.

[berettafan]

i thought that's why the factory made turbo look cars. so that one day somebody with a budget big enough could make them as fast as they look!

wonder what the dollars would be like to sell your turbo and buy a turbo look to do this with?

[Willy Leon]

I did this to my 79 early last year. I raced my 930 and hurt the motor late in the season. Rather than rebuild the turbo motor and still have to deal with the trans not being geared properly i decided to sell both and buy a 3.2 and close ratio 915 trans. The car is a hoot to drive, I race with the fast Orange group with POC and do not have to worry about the super high horsepower red group classes. I have the car weight down to 2300 lbs and that coupled with the great 930 brakes makes for a great track weapon. This would be a great set up for the street depending on the smog issues for registration.
Willy

[911st]

I am interested in how to smog exempt a 930 in Ca to.

Why not build the 930 as a Driver Education track car.

Full suspension kit, lightweight interior, SR & A/C delete, competition alignment, corner balance, and Toyo RA1 or Kumho V710 tires.

Keep the motor modest at first.

Race exhaust, intercooler, SC cams, efficient turbo, 38mm intake ports, .9 bar boost, and set the ignition advance and AFR curves on a dyno with race gas.

Add a EGT for safety.

Should be 400fwhp at about 2600 lbs.

Want to go faster, put a low R&P or better yet, close ratio gears.

Keep the stock exterior. Add a second oil cooler on the driver side.

Would be a blast!

One of my dreams.

[NY65912]

Swap cars with me.

PM me about the beast, it's just what you're looking for.

The car has been transformed into a steel widebody. It has turbo brakes and is set up for very fast DE days.

My New Track Engine Debut

If interested, I'll send a full build sheet and specs. This is a 40k engine. The car is currently having the finish bodywork done and getting ready for paint. This car is fast......period.

It looks like no more track for me due to health issues. So now I'm looking to trade for a street car.