Accidents at Drivers Education Events

[DANNOV]

I own a 1985 911 with 35,000 miles in immaculate condition. About the only time I drive this car is when I drive to and participate in PCA drivers education events. The car is regulary maintained and in fine mechanical condition. I have often wondered what would happen if I had an accident at a DE event. I have State Farm insurance and have read that policy numerous times. It seems that it has an exclusion for physical damage for a "VEHICLE WHILE BEING USED IN A RACE". I could ask my agent but I don't want to tip him off about what I'm doing, just in case such an accident is not covered and I decide to fib a bit..
A DE event is not really a race but that is probably subject to interpretation. Has anyone out there accidentally put his car into the guard rail at a DE event? What did you do? Did you try to get your insurance company to pay out? Did your insurance cover the damage? Alternatively, has anyone ever just claimed that they were driving down a dark road and a deer jumped in front of the car, and in an attempt to avoid the dumb animal he accidentally put my 911 into the guard rail. I have seen some bad accidents at DE events and I have a suspicion that the car is hauled off somewhere, numbers removed and a claim is made that the accident occurred on a dark road somewhere with no witnesses. Is anyone out there willing to be candid about past experience with such happenings?

[gchappel]

Small world- I also have an 85 carrera that sees a lot of DE's and track days. I actually asked my State Farm agent about coverage at DE events-I've known the agent for years and have a LOT of stuff with her, so I knew I could at least ask, off the cuff, safely. I was told the my car was covered at DE events as long as my car was driven, not trailered, to the event. Don't ask me why that makes a difference. I was also told they would cover it ONCE, then you would be asked to sign a wavier.
I haven't had to try it yet- thank goodness. I live in Fl, other states my vary, etc.
Have fun, be safe
Gary

[Jack Olsen]

Here's the only fib you should tell them: Call them on the phone, explain that you're considering getting a policy with them, and explain that you participate in DEs, and want to know if their basic policy will cover that.

[targa88]

The key is that DEW is NOT a race. IT is clearly a learning experience. There is no competition and no timing of events. Run groups are established based on competency. Have your insurance agent contact your local PCA chapter to reassure him/her.
The incidence of accidents in DEW is very rare - at least in my experience.
Drive carefully and enjoy.

[rscupper]

DANNOV, just ask your agent fi you're covered. What's the big deal? They work for YOU.

If you're not covered on your current policy, add it and pay the difference. If you can't get it in your state (though I've never heard of that) go elsewhere for DE coverage only.

Check with PCA at both local & national levels, if necessary. Check the net. Call one of the insurers in Pano or Excellence.

If you want peace of mind insure yourself. If you're uncomfortable talking to your own insurance agent, you'll be terrified talking to the investigating cops. Also, if you're curious as to how you would be regarded by your fellow Porsche enthusiasts, check out a recent thread on this board addressing insurance fraud - it is informative.

Cheers & good luck!

[avi8torny]

I too, like DCHAPPEL, asked my State Farm agent if I was covered and I received the same reply. They will cover you once and then you will have to sign a waiver. The State Farm policy is specific in it's wording about "racing" which DE is not. If you tow it away and tell your agent about an incident with the guardrail on the way home, you may be in more trouble than you bargained for.

On a side note: Wayne...the new software is great.

tdowling@juno.com
87 911 Targa

[don911]

I've been asking the same question. I asked my state farm agent about it and was told that because of the high speeds at the DE events, I would not be covered. I live in WA so it may very by state but my agent called the home office to find out the info.
I'm now trying to figure out a new insurance company in time for next spring's DE.

[scca_ita]

I made the mistake of asking USAA. The alarms went off!! They put me through a lintany of questions for 15 minutes and I was transfered to the head underwriter. They almost canceled my whole 3 car policy. I had to notorize a statement saying I would never do such a thing. Now I am a marked man.

[rattlsnak]

usually the biggest concern for an insurance co. is the liability, not so much the damage to your car. DE's have been going on for years, the entire event is covered by a 1,000,000 sometimes 2 - PCA binder. You can obtain a copy of this just by asking. Show them this, (if they ask to see it) and tell them you will in the car with a certified instructor learning car control etc, should be no problem.,

[zotman72]

In the Rocky Mt. Region of PCA, on your registration form, you must certify that you have liability insurance, that is cover if you cause damage to another car or driver. However, if you pack in your car at a DE due to your own error and try to get your comphrensive coverage to cover it, you are asking for trouble. I read my USAA insurance policy very closely and my liability would applied to non-timed events and non racing events. In my region, anybody who does even a hint of wheel to wheel racing during a DE, is promptly sent home. IF there is a car to car accident at a DE, it is implicit that the two drivers work it out among themselves, because if they take to their insurance companies, eventually everybody who does DE will lose.

Now in PCA racing, if you have a shunt with another car, even if you are not at fault, you have to eat the damage costs yourself.
That is scary and probably why I will never take my car down that path.


Bill
72 911T and a certified track junkie

Oh last summer, our region prez, had a front end mechanical failure on his SC, tried to use his towing insurance rider and was denied by his insurance company once they heard that his car was located at a racetrack!

[ChrisBennet]

Insurance will usually cover non timed track events. I wacked a wall once, told the insurance company the truth, they paid for it, no big deal. (My rates went down a little actually.)
Now if you want to ruin it for everyone in your region, do what someone did in Massachusetts a couple of years ago. This jerk had an accident (two?) at the track and lied to his insurance company about it. Why the guy would lie to the insurance company when he was (most likely) already covered it beyond me.
As a result, none of my friends in Mass are covered by their insurance at DE events anymore.
-Chris

[RarlyL8]

I have more questions than answers on this topic, but I'll post a few "observations".

A couple of months ago I witnessed a 993tt pack it in to the guardrail on turn 10 at Putman park. This had to be a fun day with the insurance man.

A few weeks ago a man was KILLED when he drove out on the track after failing to pass tech. He was in the pit area (again Putnam Park) and took off when others were on course. This is the high speed straight. Needless to say, he wasn't up to speed when the racers topped the hill on top of him.
Now THAT has got to be an insurance problem for everyone.

A co-worker of mine is an avid track junkie. He admits to crunching his track racer and ditching it on the way home. Not something for the feint of heart. Insurance companies take fraud pretty seriously. This character has even RENTED a car for a track event, taking out thier full insurance.