Are speed laws outdated?

[Patronus]

First, my opinion and then my question.

When the authorities decided on 55mph as the speed limit (or whatever it is in the US - here in South Africa it's 120 km/h) it was still considered to be a relatively high speed. That was two, perhaps three decades ago. The automobile has progressed in the meantime.

I agree, when there's other cars around, it makes sense to drive slowly. But when I'm the only person on a wide road that stretches for hundreds of miles, on a sunny day, how do these laws make sense?

I have few other sins, but I find it hard to crawl on an open road. So does my 911.
I further believe that we driver safer, more comfortable and in better control of our cars, at 160km/h, than most cars did in 1975 at 120km/h. We can brake harder, swerve better, have MUCH better tyres, and in most cases the roads are in better condition. We even consume less fuel, and emit less fumes. Apart from the fact that there are more and more people on our roads, why don't these laws keep up with car technology?

Or is it only me?

[PanAmeriCan]

Patronus, I've made this argument for as long as I can remember:
In most rural parts of the U.S. there is a 50-55mph speed limit on two lane, secondary, UNLIMITED ACCESS roads, and has been that way forever. On my route to work it's 55; I pass intersections, countless residential driveways, business drives/ lots, etc...all this with moderate visibility due to hills and curves. This was deemed a safe speed for multi-ton vehicles with little suspension, less braking capability, and skinny, bias-belt tires and tungsten headlights.
So why is it, that on 3 or 4 lane (each way) divided, LIMITED ACCESS highways with very good pavement, extremely good visibility being used by cars with modern lighting, suspension, brakes and tires that are superior to the race equipment of 30 years ago that speed is limited to 55 or 65mph?

If it doesn't make good common sense, it must make good business sense. It's all I can figure.

[Patronus]

I think there is no easy solution - if you let one guy do 100mph you have to let them all - but it just seems unrealistic in the light of modern automotive technology. At 65mph in any modern car I want to fall asleep. I can just imagine how frustrating it must be to late model Porsche owners, where everything is quiet and always under control.

At least in my (2.7) car 65mph feels like 65mph.

[emcon5]

The 55mph speed limit was actually lowered from 70mph in the late 1970's, with the justification that it saves gas. IIRC parts of Montana and Nevada didn't have a speed limit. I am sure someone wo lived there at the time can clarify this.

Tom

[Clark Griswald]

Several years ago the US federal government returned control of speed limits to individual states. Here in CA we have limited access highways (like I5) that are 70 mph.

I understand Montana (or is it North Dakota?) has no set speed limit, only requiring drivers to operate at a "safe" speed.

In my judgement speed limits are presently set at reasonable and safe levels. Not everyone is driving a 911.

[rscupper]

I remember during the gas 'crisis' (isn't everything a crisis in this country?) that the fed gov't extorted Montana by requiring them to post a max limit or lose their fed highway funds. So, Montana posted a 55 mph limit. Must have made the smug DC folks very happy. Montana cops were soon handing out $10 'environmental' citations. Very cool .

I have heard that Montana has since posted a max speed (?); however, the 'recognized' speed limit there is whatever is safe.
A friend confirms the same arrangement for Idaho.

Bravo for common sense!

[Patronus]

Clark, I hear what you're saying, but not everybody's driving a vintage car either. That's my whole point.

[plain fan]

I'm in the boat with you guys, I believe that some people can handle higher speeds and that the 55 is a waste. When I'm driving in going to work traffic, 2 mornings a week, the speed limit is posted at 70 mph. I travel at this speed simply becuase the OHP likes to pull over sports cars and ignor the unsafe drivers in other cars. I have to stay in the right lane because everyone else travels around 90 mph or higher. I would be all for increasing the speed limit, but we all complain abour the soccer moms and SUV drivers not paying attention, do we really want them driving over 100 mph also? I've never driven in Germany, would love to one day, but I've heard that German drivers are the best in the world and have the fewer fatalities on the road than we do. Imagine that, they even have faster speed limits than us.

[PanAmeriCan]

I think you nailed the crux of the age old argument, Chuck.
Supposedly 85% of drivers travel at what they feel is a reasonable and safe speed, regardless of posted limits. When the limits don't reflect reasonable & prudent is when you've got a real money making machine (for the insurance companies and writing gov't agency, that is).
Just gotta drive smart, I guess.

[Patronus]

I have driven in Germany when I studied there (1999) and on a number of stretches on the autobahn people drive really fast. They somehow mated speed with safety. Why can't we?

[Pillow]

The thing that should hold speed limits down are those SUVs... They can go fast, but I do not feel they are safe to drive over 70 MPH just because of thier mass.

... And big rigs, but that is another story all together because they should utilize rail travel more than cross country interstate travel for containers. It is rediculous the excess container frieght that carried via interstates over rail.

[masraum]

I'm all for higher speed limits, actually I think something like the recent bridgestone commercials would be great. But I live in Houston, 4th largest city in the US, last time I checked. I have a few observations that I hate, but I think kills the theory of this thread.
1. I see lot's of cars that are falling apart and would be very dangerous driving at 100mph
2. I see lot's (at least 50%) of people who shouldn't be driving either because of poor training, lack of attention (reading, talking on the phone, etc...)
3. There are still plenty of cars out there that would need to drive at lower speeds because they are not all engineered to go 100
4. Yes cars produce fewer emissions, but I think 99% of the cars out there would produce more emissions while traveling at 100 than even 70.
I hate this, and think it's crappy that we allow people to get licenses with minimal inadequate training, and that even in places where there is a safety inspection and an emissions inspection there are still cars that are horribly unsafe, but would you want to go by granny in her '75 Chrysler cordoba with the original tires and shocks, or bubba in his '85 Ford Pick up with his 4 different kinds of tires and 200K miles dripping oil all down the freeway, or Suzy in here new Lexus drinking coffee and talking on her cell right about the time they swerve into your lane going 80 when you are passing at 100-120mph. Yes are cars are great, but they can do only so much.
the US should require more training and harder testing to get a license, but how many people do you know that wouldn't pass? I'm sure you know some. What would happen when suddenly even a tenth of the people out there driving were deprived of that privilege?
In most things there must be compromise, I think most places having gone to 70 or 75 is a good compromise. Shoot here in Houston even though the speed limits on the many freeways that run through the middle of town are 55-60 most cops cruise along at 70-75 and don't bother anyone.
Way too much rambling for now, just my $.02 worth.

[PanAmeriCan]

"....the US should require more training and harder testing to get a license, but how many people do you know that wouldn't pass? I'm sure you know some. What would happen when suddenly even a tenth of the people out there driving were deprived of that privilege? "

Ahch..Haaa!
Maybe we've just solved a couple dilemmas!

1) Fewer drivers on the road and the ones that are, are qualified for higher speeds. And with fewer drivers on the road, it would be that much safer. Don't forget, it's the speed differential, not the speed.

2) The remaining ones complain so much that we get an actual, modern mass transit system.

Ahh, just a few concerned citizens solving the world's problems - one at a time.

[Patronus]

I agree about old and neglected vehicles, they mustn't do 100. I think they mustn't be on the road, but that's reality. Unfortunately it is the 911's that get trapped by the police. The 911 owner has a regular address, a good income, and he will pay his fine. The guy driving the '75 Chrysler probably has no fixed address, no job, and no intention of paying his fine.

And by doing 70mph he is stretching his car's abilities, where I'm nowhere near mine at 100.

That's just not fair.

[plain fan]

Ahh tougher tests, that's the ticket! I love the fact that here in Oklahoma we offer the driving test(written and on road) in languages other than English, amazing since all road signs are in ENGLISH! We have all forms of cars here in Oklahoma from the brand new to the about to die traveling on our roads. We recently did away with our safety inspections of vehicles. We got the normal "But fatalities will increase on the road since were not charging you to make sure your vehicle is safe" BS from law enforcement and do-gooders. Got news for them, I fear an idiot behind the wheel more than I fear a car with one turn signal light out. Of course if people used common sense then the state of the vehicle wouldn't matter, they would only drive as fast as they knew their vehicle could handle.
Pillow, your comment about trucks and interstate traffic is off. As plentiful as the railroad system may seem it is actually pretty limited. Especially in your area. There is no single rail system that goes from the south to the west coast, none at all. Trucks have to carry loads part of the distance because sometimes tracks aren't available or believe it or not it is cheaper for someone to pull the rig than put it on the train.

[Jim T]

I don't think the concept of speed limits is outdated, it just that most are way too low.

Here in So. Cal., at least on the freeway, its not really an issue. The CHP doesn't use radar on the freeways, and even though the posted limit is 65 on most of the major freeways (like the 405, which runs north/south), the reality is that traffic flows at a natural rate much higher than that. I'd say during non-rush hours, from 75-80 is the natural flow. I've been doing 75 and had CHP pass me at 80-85.

To get a ticket on a So. Cal. highway for speeding you have to either REALLY be speeding, or been reckless, or been really unlucky. I routinely hit 85 mph, and have only one ticket in 25 years. And, I deserved that one, because I was really pushing it.

When I lived in NY, it was different. There, the limit was artificially low (like 55 on a big, open highway), but the cops would sit and hide and nail you with radar for doing 65. Not in the interest of safety, but just for revenue purposes.

Patronus
I agree that the germans drive fast but safely. They seem to be much more aware and alert than danish drivers. Perhaps slow speeds make you dull?!?

In my opinion many speed limits are outdated. Here we're only allowed to drive 110 km/h on the motorways. Ridiculous

Usually I drive 140-160 on those roads without problems (except for a speeding ticket). People in general drive at what they find resonable (most of the time that's 130-140 km/h).

[Patronus]

Well, here in South Africa the traffic cops are generating mass money from guys like me. We've had recent examples of people doing 10km/h over the legal limit, on a freeway, being fined R10,000 ($1000) on the spot. That's a wealthy guy's monthly salary here in SA. Most people simply can't pay that, and the only other option is jail.
People that would otherwise never do anything wrong (such as a friend of mine, medical doctor) pay speed fines worth about $200 per month. And that's for doing 65 in a 60 zone, 75 in a 70 zone, and so on. And I'm talking Km/h, not miles.

One small mistake could cost you a fortune over here, and being a 911 driver, it bothers me. But having read your posts, it seems that there's a lot more tolerance in the US.

Suddenly I feel all alone again.

[makaio]

I agree with you guys. It is too easy to get a driver's licsense in the U.S. They should require a much higher level of training. I think everybody should have to take a high performance driving school type class, where they teach you about car control, to be aware of your surroundings, to use turn signals, and be a curteous driver.