Redundant Boge install questions

[NutmegCarrera]

Yes, I realize that "this thread is no good without pictures". I'm working on that...

Ordered a pair of Bilstein HD inserts for my "Early" Boge strut housings. My car was built in 2/1985. Thought that was a safe bet. Upon inspection (rec'd strut inserts yesterday, took struts off car last night), it appears that the "cap" or nut on top of the strut assembly is totally different.

The existing strut housing:
Straight tube, with external threads on the top. Cap was threaded onto this, with a flat plate welded/affixed to it that has four spanner notches in it. Stamped with danger/pressurized, or similar markings.
Took the cap off, and it spurted a little residual pressure. All the guts came out, along with a healthy dose of hyd fluid.

New inserts:
Also have external threads. A gold colored nut at the top with two notches for a spanner of some sort. The rod portion of the strut is significantly fatter (tapers near the top) than the original. No way the old cap that came off the Boge housing is going to fit over this rod.

Is this a case of "I bought the old insert, thinking my car was made before the switch, but I actually have the new style housing"?

What is supposed to retain the insert in my Boge housing, based on my description?

Unless somebody has an obvious answer and my description was clear enough, I'll be posting photos soon.

If I end up needing to swap these out, I will take pics of each - as I have not seen a good visual comparison of what's what - and this may be somewhat helpful.


Also - no wrench came with the new struts as was mentioned by someone in a previous thread. However, nothing was needed - and I used a pipe wrench on the old cap.

Thanks in advance for answers/insight. And, I probably have a new pair of inserts (old style) available should anyone be interested. (Bilstein HD).


-Chris.

[304065]

Help finding collar for Koni's in Boge struts

[NutmegCarrera]

Okay-
Here's the deal.
The car was built in 2/1985.
For the "Early" year range with Boge struts, I am supposed to use P/N P36-0112
That's what I ordered, and assume that is what I have.

As you can see from photos attached, the cap that came off the Boge housing (which is a simple tube, 49mm i.d., and threaded on the top o.d. to accept the cap in photo) isn't ever going to fit over the fat rod of the new insert.

So -
Do I actually have the later strut housings that accept the P36-0114 insert, or is there a different cap that I need, or do I have some other problem?

Thanks.

[Nine9six]

Before dropping your new strut into the housing, use a turkey baster to drain any oil that may be in the housing, as left over from the old strut. Your new strut is self contained, and does not need or use the fluid left in the housing.

Your new inserts simply drop into your existing housings, and are fastened into place with the O D threaded (bronze) castle nut threading into the I D threaded strut housing. The old black cap is not needed.
Dust cap installs last, prior to fitting the strut back up through the fender.
Hope this helps

[HarryD]

Does the retaining nut from the Bilstein fit into the strut housing and tighten up properly? If so, use that and you are good to go. You do not need the old pice.

Also, be sure you get all the old oil out so the strut seats properly. Add a few teaspoons of motor oil to help cool the strut.

[Nine9six]

Originally Posted by HarryD

Does the retaining nut from the Bilstein fit into the strut housing and tighten up properly? If so, use that and you are good to go. You do not need the old pice.

Also, be sure you get all the old oil out so the strut seats properly. Add a few teaspoons of motor oil to help cool the strut.

While HarryD really does know his stuff, I strongly suspect he said exactly what I did; however, removing the old oil plays no role in the new strut "seating" properly. It is simply cleaning up after removing the old strut, and inserting your new gas and oil charged self contained HD Bilstein strut. Additionally, a few teaspoons of motor oil will not help "cool" the strut, It will simply sit at the base of the new strut and provide no function what so ever.
pice= piece, or maybe peace

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by Nine9six

While HarryD knows his stuff, I strongly suspect he said exactly what I did; removing the old oil plays no role in the new strut "seating" properly. It is simply cleaning up after removing the old strut, and inserting your new gas and oil charged self contained HD Bilstein strut. Additionally, a few teaspoons of motor oil will not help "cool" the strut, It will simply sit at the base of the new strut and provide no function what so ever.
pice= piece, or maybe peace

Why thanks! After all, compared to folks like Grady and Steve Weiner I am totally ignorant.

Yes I apparently did restate what you said.

Anyway, back when i replaced my struts, I wasn't sure about adding oil back in but I checked with my local Guru and he told me that the oil does help in getting the heat out of the strut.

It has not seemed to create a problem in my car yet.

[NutmegCarrera]

Couple of comments-
1. Turkey baster not needed. Strut housing is out, and has had the reverse gravity treatment.
2. You guys seem to confirm my thought that I've got the wrong insert. The nice thread on the "top cap" of new insert has nothing to mate with. Just a smooth tube i.d. Also - came with no gland nut, cap, or otherwise.

Therefore, my powers of deduction lead me to believe I actually have the "late" version of the boge housing - contrary to build date of car. The inserts I bought must work with an internally threaded strut tube variety - which I've not seen.

As for "oil or not" between insert and housing - although I didn't enjoy heat transfer, I do recall that heat disappates much more efficiently when conducted rather than convected (as in through air). Therefore, it makes sense that fluid in the cavity between housing and insert makes sense.

Thanks for sharing your experiences, fellas.

[redranger]

This is a very timely thread. I'm going to install front Bilstein inserts on my 86 tomorrow. The pics are of a Bilstein sport strut made for the front of an 86 911 with a Boge strut assembly. Unlike the one show by Nutmeg, I have a second female threaded cap.



One thing I don't understand, however, is that the female cap (to the left in the pic below) is too large to mate with the male cap (on the strut just above the green section in the pic below), it just slides right over it and can't be threaded. I'm assuming I'll just use the existing caps from the assembly that is currently on the car and that the caps that come with this new shock are for a different application??

[NutmegCarrera]

Redranger-
P/N from your strut inserts??? Looks like you have what I need. Do you have a photo of the "naked" strut housing? I'll post some of mine this weekend (or early next week) if I get a chance.

Based on the appearance of your threaded cap - looks like that should do the trick by itself. Assuming that the cap restrains the strut - it seems like that would be enough. If the strut is "sloppy" in the housing, then it seems like you would need a nut to hold the insert to the cap (but that seems redundant).

Glad to be getting some resolution here - even if it's only a sliver at a time...

Why P Parts doesn't have any photos or diagrams of this subject posted is a mystery. Seems like this question is very difficult to get to the bottom of.....

[NutmegCarrera]

Also-
The bilstein instructions for my struts note that no bump stop is needed, because it's integral to the strut insert. Anybody have any experience with re-using or deleting? (Or definitive input from a suspension guru as to the right answer).

Thanks.

[redranger]

Originally Posted by NutmegCarrera

Redranger-
P/N from your strut inserts???

Part Number: W0133-1602303
Manufacturer Number: W0133-1602303

here's the link from where I bought it...

Bilstein Front Strut Insert Sport

Says fits carrera 4/85, 85-89.

I still don't understand why the female cap is larger than the male cap, they won't mate.

[Nine9six]

Originally Posted by redranger

This is a very timely thread. I'm going to install front Bilstein inserts on my 86 tomorrow. The pics are of a Bilstein sport strut made for the front of an 86 911 with a Boge strut assembly. Unlike the one show by Nutmeg, I have a second female threaded cap.



One thing I don't understand, however, is that the female cap (to the left in the pic below) is too large to mate with the male cap (on the strut just above the green section in the pic below), it just slides right over it and can't be threaded. I'm assuming I'll just use the existing caps from the assembly that is currently on the car and that the caps that come with this new shock are for a different application??

Red,
The inserts come with two different configuration caps. At least mine did...
You can only use one of the configurations based upon the mating portion of your strut housing. The other cap is not needed.
Drop the insert into the housing. The cap serves two functions...Wiper for the strut stancion, and cap that threads onto the strut housing. This holds the strut body into place within the housing. Be sure to tighten the cap nut adequately.
P.S. Why have neither of you guys posted pictures of your strut housings? The housings either have internal or external threats at the top, which mate with the cap castle nut.

[redranger]

Nine, thanks, that clears it up, I figured one was for a different config. I won't have time to install the struts until tomorrow afternoon...I'll post pics. My struts are external threaded, so I will need the top cap.

[Nine9six]

Redranger,
Happy to have been of help...I remember thinking your same thoughts upon receipt of my new Bilstein sports. Only installation and the realization of the existing configuration of my strut housing, solved my questions of wonderment.

[NutmegCarrera]

Regarding my blatant lack of photos on this thread (the housings themselves):
Sorry, but have not had a chance to get to the garage more than 1x this week. Struts were at work at the time, and that session was short - and didn't want to grease my camera up.
Also - struts were a flippin' mess- as was everything else underneath this car.
Reason #2- Thought that this would be a no-brainer for somebody here who has likely seen both varieties of strut. The link from Redranger was very helpful, as that vendor is the first of any that I've seen who gives a hint as to what differentiates the "early" from "Late" insert/housing from Boge. Internal thread vs. external thread would be enough for me!!! At least I would've pulled the thing off first to look, had I known what I was looking for.

In any case - here are a couple of photos showing the cap and housing. Obvious to me now is that I need the "late" insert. I also know now that the cap that came off will get tossed, along with the guts from the struts.

Anybody in need of a set of HD inserts for up to 1985, please PM me.

Thanks again for all the infos, and esp the photos!

[HarryD]

Sorry for your pain. Begore you sell the struts at a loss, I would contact the vendor and see if you exchange them for the correct ones.

[NutmegCarrera]

Harry-
Yep - already sat in phonemail he!! for awhile waiting to talk with a human. If nobody here is interested, will get a bag of popcorn and a couple of beers so I can contemplate their "hold" music.....

[redranger]

I'm sure somebody on here will buy them, there are a ton of people with pre-85 cars. I posted on the for sale thread and literally sold my rear boge shocks the day I replaced them with Bilsteins. You won't get full retail, but at least it won't be a total loss. You'll sell them easily on E-bay too.

[Icemaster]

Sorry I didn't get to this thread earlier....I feel your pain.

The mid-year cap/plug changover screwed my world up for about a month. No help from the manufacturer, they never returned phone calls - and I actually had a specific name that I was given to talk to.

I posted a WTB over on the parts section for the right kind of gland nut, someone did have a set and sold them to me. You might try that before you crap out on the inserts or endure any more elevator music.

I'll look through my parts records and see if I have any notes about the part number.