Punched hole in block, any easy fix?
 

I have a 1965 911 that I had jacked in the air, the jack failed and it landed on a jackstand that was under the engine. It punched about a 2 inch diameter hole in the bottom of the case and drained out the oil. Is there any easy fix for me or am I doooomed?
Thanks for any and all help!!!

So very sorry to hear that. It all depends on where the hole is. If it is in the case, on a lower side that basically holds oil in you might be able to have it welded. However I would have the motor disassembled for full investigation.

You should post some pictures so that a better description and other options could be given.

btw, be sitting down when you find out how much a new early aluminum case will cost.

Best of luck.

Agree with Jamie - pics good. You are in one bit of luck: it is aluminum and a much easier fix than magnesium. I have seen more than one SC/Carrera case get a weld repair for a "rod window" in the case, which is a muchmore violent injury than you are describing. Barring sheer unlucky insanity, it should be very fixable, although the engine may have to come apart. Frankly, anything aluminum can be fixed, it is simply a function of how much work it will take.

If I saw a nice sharp pic, I could tell you if its repairable or not.

Without question, the engine must come completely apart for any repairs since the case must be VERY thoroughly degreased to be welded (if its possible).

If Steve says so, it is so...

You might be able to arsehole it together with 2 fender washers and some neoprene. If you can get a washer into the case (through the inspection cover) and a boltwith a neoprene gasket, you might be able to sandwich the hole with a fender washer on the outside and inside with neoprene rubber gaskets.

Just a thought.

Pics of the damage
 

Here are some pics, it just popped a nice plug out of the bottom. What is the case made out of so I can ask a welder about fixing it. Its a 1969 911 engine.




http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1271112161.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1271112234.jpg

Wow!!!

I cringe when I see that. it is weldable but not by just anyone. Where are you in Sask? I know of a shop in Regina that would have somebody suitable skilled that could TIG it for you.

I am in Yorkton, just 2 hours away from Regina. I have it insured to the hilt, maybe insurance will replace instead of repair. The engine ran good, but could use a rebuild in a year or 2.

The Porsche is a 65 911 with a 1969 911 engine in it. It doesn't look like aluminum, my first guess was magnesium.

I think 1969 would be a magnesium case...that probably cannot be welded. On a side note, it won't be that expensive to find another magnesium 1969 case at all.

I thought you cracked a 1965 case at first and if you had done that I would say you would have a good chance at fixing that exact hole because it is aluminum and if you showed it to a good engine shop that can do block repairs they would have probably gotten it to the point where you couldn't tell and strong.

Of course Steve is correct about the dismantle, BUT to avoid a very long story, I punched a hole in a motorcycle engine case one, HAD to be on the road the next day and called a welder friend. When he arrived at work, the engine was on his door step, I worked a 1/2 day, picked it up at noon and was riding out of town at 4:30....If the 1969 engine is a mag case, all bets are off.....

Magnesium can be welded, requiring special rod and training. So there is a possibility you can still get this fixed, jsut have to find a welder that knows how and has right rod.

Thats a mag case,.........

Truthfully,...I would get another case, do requisite the prep work, and install all of your internals into that one.

I think you'll be money ahead since you'd need to do the same things to that case once its all apart. The crank never turns freely once the through-bolts are relaxed so the proper work is the same and the car will maintain value with a virgin case.

If it was the original case with the right numbers for that car, it would be a different story.

Cool, thanks for the help guys. Still feel like puking though.

This made my day. Never heard this term and might start using it from now on!

:D

I'm sick to my stomach. It does look like a mag case. Maybe try and find a 3.0 motor. There's a big swap meet in Hershey PA on the 24th. I know it's short notice but might be a good resource for cases. I'll keep my eyes peeled for you.

If I had a dollar for all the times I ended up damaging something trying to improve it or maintain it......

Im thinking bent aluminum suspension components, scratched paint, ripped vinyl... It goes on and on... Sorry to hear about this, this is a mistake I would wish upon any porsche owner. Youll be able to make lemonade out of this lemon, just have to get past this bitter moment...

Ohhhhh, that's nasty. New case time IMHO.....

That's a pretty damned clean hole. Don't laugh, but I'd take a shot at epoxying that mofo back together. What'll it hurt to try...the alternative is the same.

no way! on the epoxy


just as soon as you thought it was safe to go play you would be 50 miles from home when the epoxy failed and then you'd be out all your usable internals.

to much risk to try and patch it.

if you dont have the time buy a running second hand mtor for now bolt it in and drive while you rebuild your current hole in one :rolleyes::eek::eek:

sorry to see this we all have been down a similar path one time or another.

cheers ed

Ouch, sorry to see that.
It looks repairable, but I'm no expert.
Must have left a nice puddle of oil on your garage floor huh?

I am thinking its time for a trip to the insurance company. They won't have a clue what it will take to fix it or the costs. If anyone has any idea roughly as to what the steps and costs will be. I pay lots for the insurance and would be nice to get it fixed properly.
And ya, it made a huge mess on the floor. Just threw sand on it and walked out the door. Got a beer. Sat in the dark.

how would insurance pay for this?

will insurance cover something that you caused.

i hope you can get your money out of them,i have paid for 25 years and never got a dang thin from them but a monthly bill.

hope it works out.

cheers ed

I am going to see them in the am but they should. They cover any damages to the vehicle that weren't will-full damages. It was jack failure that caused the damage.
I have heard of people driving over rocks and smashing out oil pans getting complete motors replaced.
Crossing fingers!

good luck

hope it works out for you, dont let them total your car due to the motor cost as this would ruin its future value. play it safe and think all there offers through before agreeing to something.

good luck

cheers ed

Sorry to hear about the hole in your case, but shouldn't your jack stand have been supporting the motor instead of your jack? Were you jacking it up when the jack failed, then how did the jack stand get under the engine? Just remember, Safety First.

ouch..... :(

Good news is you should check the regional forums (Canada) for haycait911 's post for a 69 engine case (and internals) forsale from about 3 months ago. Not sure if he still has it, but if so, that will sort of solve some of problem.

JB Weld to the rescue!
 

IF you needed a temporary fix you could use a product called Marine Tex. It's stronger than JB Weld. I wouldn't bet the pricy internals on a putty fix for long though. It would be tough to get the surfaces clean and oil free enough to bond. But- modern aerospace, aircraft and race cars have bonded metal parts. It takes experience and a clean joint.

I would transfer the parts to a new case. If you have ever played around with magnesium ribbon you can imagine the dangers of messing around with magnesium and high heat!

Of course this accident is "sudden and accidental" you just might be covered with your car policy. Your car also might NOT be excluded on your homeowners policy. I mention these options because you are looking at a PRICY R&R.

It's really great though, that that fell on your engine and not your HEAD!

Take this experience as a chance to make that fantastic 2 liter engine as new.

Good Luck!
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1271167592.jpg

The welding will be easy and non problematic. The big thing will be complete engine disassembly. If you do the work yourself, the big expense will be gaskets. If you have a shop do the work a used engine might be a cheaper route. Then you sell your core to a DIY guy for abbout half the price of a good used engine. Good luck.

Diverdan

This might be a stretch, but I wonder if you could fit an aluminum plate out of say .060" T3 then install aircraft "cherry rivets" (structural blind rivets) and some heat resistant epoxy or PRC adhesive? The only problem I see is the area next to the case halves.

mechanical repair
 

The contour at the edge of the damage makes any mechanical repair tedious.

That'll buff right out!
Seriously, I would patch it. Make a 3/16 thick aluminum plate about 1/2 larger than the hole (where possible) to go inside the case. Bore and tap a series of #6 screw holes around the perimeter of the plate with matching holes in the case. Bore and tap a few holes in the center area of the plate with matching holes in the broken piece. Put epoxy on the seams, screw it together, and drive it while you look for another engine. I would not consider such a patch to be a permanent fix, of course, but what do you have to lose?

Mechanical Repair...
 

I agree, however it's worth considering since dropping the engine, a new case and switching the internals over (probably at that point a rebuild is in order) is also more than tedious, can you say expensive...

Mitch

That may work but for how long would it be oil tight?
It's worth a try but even then you'd have to take it apart to get it really clean and well sealed.
And if you're going to do that then why not weld it instead?

If it was mine >>>

Pull the engine and carefully disassemble.
Get the hole professionally welded by a specialist. Send it interstate if you have to.
If the welding doesn't hold then the only other thing to do is buy a good case and transfer your internals etc.

Second hand engine? That's your call but it's an unknown.

Whatever you do it's going to be expensive but you already know that.
Learn from it and move forward. What else can you do?

I feel bad for you. I can only imagine how you felt when it happened.

Me Too!
 

Just looking at it makes me want an "eye-opener"!!!!!!

If it is not a car with collectible potential, sell or part out the motor with full disclosure and fit a good used motor (SC or 2.4 long block?)

A used case is not that much, it is getting it machined, squared up and ready for use that is expensive. If going that far, might as well make it a good rebuild. Now it is a $7-12k deal.

Actually, insurance may pay! I asked my agent what happens if one of the kids knocks over a cabinet and it ruins my car? What if a light falls and breaks the windshield while in the garage? I told him that I suspect folks do lots of stupid things that result in accidents...

He said its covered. It goes under comprehensive, as these were "accidents." He added something about insurance companies not being able to deny coverage due to "stupidity...", Then he smiled...

JB Weld it up, then get this guy Terry to sell it for you!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/228947-c4-salvage-title.html

I had the car jacked up and just slid the 2 jack stands under the car. I was positioning the 1 stand under the car when the car just came crashing down. It landed on the stand I had yet to position and it was unluckily right at that point. The jack is a 2.5 ton jack, only about 7 years old but lost all its fluid too and now won't jack up at all so something inside must have broke. It was a close call. I am a paramedic and have been to a lot of calls where guys are squished under their cars so I always use jack stands with the jack.