Precise difference in rear flares - RSR vs wide Kremer ST vs 930?

[70SWT]

Title says it all - thanks in advance. Cheers, Al

[skinnerd]

I'll take a stab.

RSR and ST.....same profile (very rounded), but with RSR handling 11" wide wheels and ST handling 10" wide wheels.

Turbo much more squared off profile, but like RSR able to handle 11" wheels underneath.

Many have posted pics of the differences.
Perhaps you can search and find?

[TRE Cup]

Lets start with a "standard" ST rear flare. It has a rounded shape on the shoulder and more elongated in the wheel opening when compared to a std 930 rear flare. We would call this a 9" flare as the body will accomodate a 9 x 15 rim and tire. Interestingly enough we have fitted 10 x 15 custom Harvey W built fuchs with this flare too

Kremer ST: So the brothers were looking for an edge over the competition. And the standard ST flare got subtly reworked to accomodate bigger wheels and tires. Its more of a "10-ish" flare and we know that you can squeeze 11 x 15's on these cars, especially when done with the custom offset BBS rims. Check out pics of the green ST (both the real deal and Gib Bosworth's most excellent tribute replica) to see how they fitted big rims on it

73 RSR : also known as a 11" flare as the 11 x 15 fits the car. Tires in the day had pretty tall sidewalls so you will see period pics of the cars up in the air. Prolly a good thing as the gas tank was getting dragged on the pavement and wearing thru !
The RSR flare has a rounded shoulder , much like the ST, and different in profile when compared to the turbo. This flare was also used on the Iroc/RSR and the RS 3.0

74-75 RSR: Fiberglass and in 13" and 15" variants. Vented front and rear.

Turbo rear flare: A squared off shoulder on its circumference, this 11" flare has a much more symmetrical opening compared to the others. The purists , when building RSR style cars, don't like to use these

maybe somebody can post pics of all the above to illustrate the different looks

[Flieger]

[Flieger]

[Flieger]

Here's Gib's car:

[70SWT]

I am primarily focusing on the 11" versions of the early cars versus the 930 - I understand there were 10" and 11" versions of the Kremer S-Ts.

In terms of shape, I am particularly interested in the corner just aft of the torsion bar hole. I wonder how similar the 930 flare is to the early cars, recognizing that the Kremer cars were not production models.

The other interesting area is the top of the curve of the flare. On some wide 911s, it sits lower and seems to crowd the tire, which I don't like. It looks better when it is a more circular radius that evenly reveals the tire, but I am not sure which profile is more true to the early cars. Gib's car has a good look, and I understand his rear flares were derived from 930 flares.

[TRE Cup]

I recommend that you look at the "in the day" pics of the cars. There are a couple threads on early S registry that show all manner of angles, pics, lighting to you can discern the details you are after.

Don't pay attention to new build or restoration pics as these might be slightly off.

Chris Neilsen's blue ST replica used real ST flares and there are pics of his build posted on this forum.

73 RSR and ST used the same front flare- you can see that in the pics of the silver factory martini above and the daytona and european races that the green kremer ran. Chiquita also has the correct front fender, but i think the pic shown is of it competing recently, so though it may be correct, you would have to compare to old pics to make sure.

We tried modifying a 930 flare as an experiment- making it into a wide ST flare- uh... no ! it was a mess and would basically have required piecing a lot of metal together to get to where we needed to be

BTW - the factory only built 7 (seven) race ST 2.5 with the flares. The rest were kits sold to clients or installed for clients, in Stuttgart. So sure, for the most part these flares were semi consistent. But competitive license (Kremer, Toad Hall, etc) would stretch things a bit for more offset, rubber, wider wheels
Add in the prototype R series for the 73 RSR (not 911R !) and there are interesting differences there too

[Flieger]

The Chiquita photo is from back in the day at the ring.

Here are some resources:

RS, RSR, and ST photos:

slidevalve911rsr's Photo Galleries at pbase.com


Gib Bosworth's Build:

Kremer ST Recreation in progress - Early 911S Registry Bulletin Board


Chris Nielson talking about ST flares:

ST flares - Early 911S Registry Bulletin Board

[Jaskas]

I have been wondering here, that how much wider is the (usual) ST flare than a standard SC/Carrera flare? About 1" ?

[Flieger]

I also had a question: Are the RSR/ST front flares the same width as rear RS flares?