If its not one thing, its another...smoke under dash...

[bpu699]

Just finished putting the 88 930 back together after fixing motor/trans leaks. Drove it 4-5 times, no problems. I was grinning from ear to ear.

Went to start it today, and the starter was spinning very slowly, like the battery was dying...took 4-5 wah wah wah wah's, I let go of the key and heard a clack from the starter. Turned it again, Wah Wah Wah and started, ran fine, took a nice 1 hour drive with the kids...

Got home, parked it in the garage. Wife asked me to move it a foot over, as her parking spot was tight...

Turned the key, "Wah Wah Waaahhh" Starter spinning very slowly. Then WHITE SMOKE shot out from under the dash (by the radio). It looked like it might be from the radio, it was actually hissing out... I plan to take out the guages and make sure its not any of the wiring accessible from there that burned...

CRAA***P.

Checked the battery, fully charged.

Checked the ground straps at the trans...its fine...

Starter is 3 years old, a newer high torque upgrade by PO...

Against my better judgement, I turned the key again...starter just clicked... a bit more white smoke...

My thoughts:

?Bad connection to starter, causing higher resistance...?
?Fried starter?

But why smoke under the dash??? If the starter were fired, I would expect the starter to overheat and "smoke." The starting circuit is pretty straightforward I thought. Starter gets grounded and you have a direct line from the battery to the solenoid. Key just clicks the solenoid on and allows current to flow to the starter. How does a bad/jammed starter cause smoke by the radio??? I suppose the next step is to take the starter out and test it?

The bentley manual talks about checking voltages at the solenoid, etc, while turning the key, but how on earth can you do that as the starter is totally inaccessible...

Sigh, I am so frustrated. You fix one thing, and then its another...

Anyone with other thoughts???

[nineball]

can't say that i have had your exact problem but last year the coating on the wire for my ash tray light finally deteriorated enough to cause it to ground out. i had more smoke coming out of my dash than i would have thought possible. if i were in your shoes i'd take a flash light and do some yoga positions under the dash checking out all the wiring for the first step.

[dshepp806]

This isn't starter related, I would imagine. You've some wires that should be easily ID'd with inspection.....

This reminds me of why I fused my dash lights (since Porsche didn't).

Best of luck,

Doyle

[kidrock]

I'm with nineball and Doyle...check your wiring underneath your kneepads and you'll find the source of your angst. An under-protected wire either got too hot or shorted itself against a metal source.

You may have to pull some dash gauges if not easily found.

[schumicat]

definitely add a fuse to your dash illumination at the light switch. $4 for in-line fuse holder, 3 amp fuse, and 5 minutes. even if it isn't the problem, it can prevent similar problem in future. I found instructions with search here and did this today.

[LUFTMAN]

Yes check dash light harness for gauges not fused 8 bulbs blue/black harness if you need one i have one brand new. Regards tom

[red 2.7]

Similar problem 2 weeks ago I had to replace lots of melted wire from the gages to the ignition harness to the fuse holder. I still haven't put all the vent controls back that were in the way. Fix it and keep an extinguisher handy.

[bpu699]

Guys thanks for the help... I am confused though...

So you guys feel that there is an under dash short and thats why the starter is getting so little juice (amperage)?

If there were a short, would smoke come out the moment I turn the key? The smoke only comes out when the starter is engaged...

[dshepp806]

Dude,..let's clarify what "turning the key" means. You originally stated that you turned the key to crank it (that's thru the 1st position and all the way over to start position. I think you mentioned you did it twice. There was never a "pause" (earlier positions) for the "smoke test".

The main points mentioned here have to do with the fact that there exists a few circuits that are NOT FUSED from the factory (instrument lights, etc.). There exists mods (as suggested) to address this issue (and the issue could be a shorted condition that would EASILY generate SMOKE. This may not be your situation, but you'll certainly soon find out where this shorted condition lives. We're just saying it's a KNOWN source of unfused failure, with terrible consequences (one of THE reasons an "unmodded" guy would be certain to carry an F/E!)

Smoke can stop once the wires are burned apart.

Time to pull the stuff and have a look/see. My guess is that it will be visually apparent, at least.

Many guys to help you here....keep us updated.

Thanks,

Doyle

[bpu699]

Alright...no answers, but some updates...

Took out all of the dash gauges, checked the wiring, none of it looks burned. My thought is that perhaps the smoke came out of the radio? (The smoke was shooting downwards, in the vicinity of the radio). I removed it, turned the key, no more smoke.

Turning the key gets the machine gun sound from the starter. When the lights are on, they dim dramatically. 1 out of 10 times the starter spins, and starts the car. I haven't tried wacking it with a BFH yet... Oddly, driving down the road, after about an hour, the wiper started working on its own... wipes 2-3 times, then stops. Only happened once... Oddly, this correlates with the tach swinging to the right, and a rare misfire...

So, clearly the answer is that the car is possesed .

Here is my plan for the weekend...

1) Recheck all of the grounds. The ground strap from the trans to shell is brand new. Of interest, I used nyloc-nuts on there as I didn't want it to loosen. I would think that there is more that enough condcutivity there from the strap touching the frame where this shouldn't matter... May replace this nut...

2) Had the battery checked. After a 1 minute load with the lights on, voltage was 11.4. Bad battery according to Bentley. But I took it to Sears, they ran a 50amp load on it, and said it passed with flying colors...

3) I could unrap even more wires under the dash to see if they are burned (I unwrapped each bundle about half way)...but the ends/exposed areas were fine...

4) I plan to trace the wire from the wiper stalk, and see if it contacts somewhere it shouldn't...any one know the color to look for???

I am not sure if what is really happening is several unrealted things, or if 1 base issue is causing all of this...

The occasional misfire with the tach swinging, I suspect might be a VR. It happens so rarely, I just haven't addressed it...

The starter not flipping could just be a bad starter...

The wipers self activating...that one has my head scratching...

Does anyone have any idea how any one area or misfunction could account for all of these symptoms? Any Sherlock Holmes types on the board ?

The only other thought I have is to trace the yellow wire from the ignition, to see if it shorted somewhere...causing a lack of voltage to the solenoid...

[dshepp806]

I think you've some compromised grounds, as well. Clearly there exists some burnt wiring yet to be found?

Best,

Doyle