Starter problem

[MikeB]

Had to push start my 85 Coupe after the company xmas dinner at a nice restaurant. Nice... Anyway, engine will not turn over and here is what I have done:
New battery (was time, 38 months on a 50 month battery is living on borrowed time IMHO). Battery shows 12.5 volts at the terminals.
Using my DVOM, I show about 11 volts to terminal 50 on the starter solenoid with key at START (emphasis compliments of Bentley book). Fine. Terminal 30 (from battery) shows 12.5 volts. Golden. I show 0 volts at the field winding connector with key at START. Ah-hah! Off to the Bosch distributor for a new solenoid. Oops, can't buy just the solenoid; ok give me the solenoid and the starter. Install starter. "While I'm at it" I clean the transmission to body ground strap. Beautiful. Test system and I still show 0 volts at the field winding connector. Still a solenoid problem?? Double checked everything. The terminals on the new solenoid are oriented slightly differently, but clearly marked and terminal 15 was not used. Cleaned ground strap at battery for grins. Still no joy. Only a click and the starter is definitely not engaging. I am open for ideas...

[ebradway]

I've been fighting a similar gremlin, only my '86 starts 95% of the time on it's own. So far it has refused to start exactly four times: three times at Rest Area's on the interstate (twice with my daughter - she got a kick out of watching me push start the car) and once right before a job interview (UGH!).

Today, as preventative maintenance, I cleaned the negative post on the battery and the negative cable and reattached (I recently had the negative pole disconnected for 2 weeks in balmy Florida while I replaced the clutch) and took off the positive leads on the starter and cleaned up the connections. Because I couldn't duplicate the problem, I couldn't tell if I actually fixed it.

Let us know what you find. It's quite possible that you got a bad replacement starter/solenoid. I went through three starters on a toyota I used to own before getting one that actually worked. I really thought I was screwing up, but...

Have you tried bench-testing the starter? It's just an electric motor with a solenoid on it. You should be able to use jumper cables off the battery and put the starter in a vice. If it doesn't work out of the car, then you have your culprit.

[dickster]

did the replacement battery solve the problem initially? you don't say how long ago it was replaced.

i'd have the battery tested - volts are only half the story. i had a brand new battery go bad on me. i got a defective cell but it still showed 12.5 volts.

then i agree you should remove the starter and bench test.

i'll be interested to know the outcome......

regards

richard

[rstoll]

Sorry about the cutoff pic, but try cleaning the multi-pin connector on back of relay panel in engine bay.

[Adam]

Hey, my P-car let me down today too! I was visiting my girlfriend's parents and we jumped in to leave. Her parents were out admiring my freshly washed car and were waving me goodbye. The car wouldn't start.

Anyhow, it was cranking nicely, just not catching. I noticed I didn't hear that telltale fuel pump whine, so I popped the hood, checked the fuel pump relay and the fuse and basically unplugged them and fiddled with them a little. The fuse looked A-ok, so I slapped them back in and turned the key and was truckin'.

I'll organize a replacement fuse and probably start carrying a couple of spare relays at all times. Don't want to be left stranded. BTW, it was a glorious day today. Perfect P-car weather... Lots of people getting their "toys" out too! Saw 3 911s (2 SCs and an early targa) and a 996 owner even flashed me

[MikeB]

Richard, I will swap batteries and check with a known good one. I assumed that this was a good one. We'll see what happens, battery is brand new.
Robert, I will clean that multi pin connector and hope for the best.
Eric, I will bench test the starter if the above items aren't the culprit. Silly me, assuming these new/rebuilt items actually work. Actually, I kinda hope they don't, because then I know what the problem is and can go from there.
Adam, I know the pain. But remember, a non start will occur only in front of plenty of witnesses...

Thanks to all and I will report progress as soon as I finish my xmas shopping (!)

[MikeB]

Richard, you were on the money. Bad battery. How silly of me to assume that just because the battery was fresh off of the shelf, still in its shrink wrap, and showing 12.5 volts, that it would be serviceable. Guy at Interstate said it was fresh and fully charged. Fine. And the kicker is, there was a test stand about 3 ft from the cash register. Lesson learned... load test your new battery just in case...

[stormcrow]

Richard,

Check the terminals across the selenoid valve with the ohm meter. If you get a reading (resistance reading) then the selenoid is good. You can jumper from the high tension wire on the selenoid to the high tension wire on the starter to see if the starter will turn.

The selenoid valve engages the gear for the starter, and if it is not working than the starter will not engage nor turn.

Check for power to the selenoid valve. If you have power going to it, then run a temporary ground on the other terminal to see if that's where your problem is. Could be you have a bad ground connection.

Steve

[dickster]

mikeb

glad you sorted it.

its amazing isn't (and bloody frustrating!)!

merry christmas

richard

[yelcab1]

Mike

Glad you sorted out. For other times when the battery is not the problem, here is what happened to my 84 911.

I replaced the starter with a rebuilt unit and 2 years later it died with the same symptoms as yours. Took me 3 years to finally solve it. It was the rebuilt unit that has a slightly bent shaft on which the starter gear jumps out to engage the fly wheel. Because it was slightly bent, when it is hot, there is enough interference so that the starter gear would not jump out. It just clicks and sits there.

Finally, took it off, have it rebuilt with another core, and the problem had gone away forever, never to come back again.