After Market Ignitions (MSD/Crane etc)

Fishcop · Fishcop's Garage

Well I'm finally getting of my arse to "rebuild" my ignition. As a few of you are aware, my 69T is blessed with the Marelli distributor from factory....parts NLA.

It would apear that I've scored a Bosch replacement unit (but am yet to clarify numbers or condition) and I'm keen to be rid of points. I've been around to a few of my local suppliers and have received a plethora of opinions, these guys are all drag racing type enthusiasts, so I value your (porsche) opinions a little more.

I'm receiving mixed ideas on the best way to go for me, particularly as to which is better....the MSD 6AL vs Crane HI-6. One guy I spoke said the MSD units seem to break down more often. Another bloke reckons I don't need either of those systems and suggests a Crane XR700 or XR3000. If I choose this path, should I include the Pertronix unit for consideration?

I'd love some feed-back from you guys that have these systems fitted. My car at this stage is street only, but I plan on some auto-X and hill climbs in the future. I've read as many of the recent posts as I can on the subject such as CamB's conversion to MSD, but am keen hear other's experiences.

Thanks and Happy New Year to you all from Queensland, Australia

12-28-2001, 11:38 PM

Ouch said the old drag racer............
Him......slams first or advice......
Well in my experience even though it is from such lowley heights. MSD has a very good product, seemed to work all right on my stroker small block egads chevy (lower case for everyones benifit) spinning at 8400 rpm never had an ignition related problem. And as far as reliability goes the motor and ignition box still run after ten years of use.
How many improvements can be made on these cars for so little money ($130.00 US).
Ok well just try a good points conversion kit pertronix etc (don't go near anything that uses led's unilite etc).
MSD 6A or 6T or the 6AL are all good boxes. Also follow the directions the boxes need 10amps of power and connect directely to the battery. Also make sure the plug wires are in good condition.

Or my favorite stick with the stock points.
Trivia Curb weight 1966 Caprice with 325hp 396 3570lb
Curb weight 2002 Carrera around 3400lb
Chris

jkeyzer · jkeyzer's Garage

I recently upgraded to an MSD 6A with a high vibration coil and soon after a Pertronix and I have been very satisfied with the results. I am getting considerably better cold starts and the car seems to run better all around. My idle is considerably smoother but that also has to do with my adjustments of the MFI.

I have friends who have run Pertronix in their cars for years without any trouble. The MSD costs about as much as a new coil does for the stock CD system. If you don't have CD then I think it would be a noticable improvement to change to an MSD (which is CD also). If you search the archives there are several success stories about MSD in them.

jluetjen · jluetjen's Garage

I've got the Crane XR700 and an MSD6AL in my car and they work great. Incidentaly, the Crane XR700 replaces the stock points and the MSD6 replaces the ignition box. I believe that one of the big differences between the different MSD6 boxes is the inclusion of a rev limiter or not. I got it for my car for future use, but right now it's redundant with the stock rev limiter in the distributor. If you go with the Crane and MSD6, you will need to use a ballast resister for the Crane and a tach adaptor for the MSD.

This set-up gets my endorsement. I bought the car with the Crane equipment on it so I have no comparison for that. I added the MSD and compared to running without it, the MSD smooths out the idle and the engine pulls better below 3000 RPM. It also never seems to foul the plugs.

Fishcop · Fishcop's Garage

Sorry Chris, I wasn't for a second disparaging any one's personal tastes in motorsport. It's just that a few of the clowns around here are oblivious to anything but angle iron and big cubes!

Thanks for the input guys. Would it be safe to say that I can begin an upgrade with a Pertronix or XR700, and later ad MSD?

Cheers

my72911t/rs · 12-29-2001, 10:00 PM

I got nology wires plugs and coil with a stock cd box seems to work great? Also have a spare cd box just in case. Very hot spark
wires have another capasitor.

12-29-2001, 11:07 PM

So the Mad Max movies are more like a documentary

I would use the pertronix unit first just to get rid of the points.
I had bad luck with the LED products (unilight) but very good luck with MSD. Just installed a 6A unit on the sled and it realy helps out the old garbage truck motor (big block).
Make damn sure your ignition wires are in good condition or you might find the experience a bit shocking. Also with the close spacing of the secoundary terminals on the cap you will need to keep a close watch for carbon tracking in the cap and crossfiring.
Also keep an eye on potential lean mixture conditions due to better spark/burn.
You also might consider one of the timing computer options and lock out the mechanical & vacuum advance in the distributor. This would give you alot of options for tuning the advance curve high rpm retard etc. And it beats the hell out of &^#%$ around with weights and springs.

If you can get by the bench racing bs the drag guys do have some good ideas that can cross over to the P-cars.
I didn't find anything disparaging in your post, besides I'm a public employee so I get abused and insulted all the time.

I would get a copy of the MSD catalog or visit the web site they have alot of interesting toys.
Hope the information helps I think you will find the improvements worthwille.
Chris

CamB · CamB's Garage

John

As you know I am a big proponent of the MSD units. I haven't had mine long enough to know if there are reliability problems, but it made my car run great. It should run even better with a proper dizzy.

My opinion is that you should have some sort of CDI system, whether it be stock/Permatune, MSD or Crane. Porsche went to CDI to stop plug fouling and improve high speed running and it stands to reason that so should you. My rationale for the MSD over stock Porsche is that it is 20 years newer for the same price and thus more likely to be reliable (plus the multiple spark helps low speed running). Only real issue is mounting the MSD box and needing a tach adaptor for my tach.

As my sole data point, I can leave the car idling for 10-15 minutes and it won't foul the plugs, whereas my friend with a Lotus Elan and a Crane XR700 has no ignition problems except for plug fouling.

If I could, I would replace the points too (eg Crane XR700 or Pertronix), but this is probably not so important as the points are not carrying much current with the MSD.

Replacing the spark plug wires is mandatory. Get a new coil if funds permit. The MSD high vibration shouldn't set you back more than about A$80-90, which is very very cheap compared to the stock Bosch coil for CDI.

Cam

SprintStar · 10-20-2003, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jluetjen
I've got the Crane XR700 and an MSD6AL in my car and they work great.

Hi... You got the wiring diagram for it? I've got a XR-700 on my car too and I got a spare MSD 6AL laying around. Looking to install it. I got the tach adaptor too. Will I need it? The car is a '67S.

Thanks!

Sprint.

jluetjen · jluetjen's Garage

Sprint; I think that this is what you are looking for. Note the ballast resister tied to 12V in parallel with the ignition switch in the center of the drawing. It's a little feint.

SprintStar · 10-21-2003, 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jluetjen
Sprint; I think that this is what you are looking for. Note the ballast resister tied to 12V in parallel with the ignition switch in the center of the drawing. It's a little feint.

John,

Saw your diagram but I'm still confused as to how the who she-bang integrates with my XR-700. Any more diagrams you got?

And where can I draw power from the engine bay? They ask for a good source best from battery. Hmmm... On the Bug, it's easy coz I mounted it on the cabin side firewall and the battery is just lower down beneath the backseat... How on a 911? Thanks!

Sprint.

jluetjen · jluetjen's Garage

Sprint;
As far as getting 12V in the engine compartment, that is easier then you think. Check out this picture...

The copper colored screw pointed out on the left always has an unswitched 12v's going to it, so it is hot even when the engine is turned off and the key removed from the ignition.

It's tied to the fuses pointed out on the right which are in the same condition. I took my 12V from the screw.

What wires in particular are you unsure about hooking up to. I'll be happy to check my car and get back to you.

- John

SprintStar · 10-21-2003, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jluetjen
Sprint;
As far as getting 12V in the engine compartment, that is easier then you think. Check out this picture...

The copper colored screw pointed out on the left always has an unswitched 12v's going to it, so it is hot even when the engine is turned off and the key removed from the ignition.

It's tied to the fuses pointed out on the right which are in the same condition. I took my 12V from the screw.

What wires in particular are you unsure about hooking up to. I'll be happy to check my car and get back to you.

- John

John! You still there? It's nearly midnight now, but I'm going to go shoot some pics of my '67S. Will post in about 20 mins or so... My side firewall looks a bit different.... Coz I got a fuel pump and filter there....

Sprint.

Chuck Moreland · 10-21-2003, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jluetjen
Sprint;
As far as getting 12V in the engine compartment, that is easier then you think. Check out this picture...

The copper colored screw pointed out on the left always has an unswitched 12v's going to it, so it is hot even when the engine is turned off and the key removed from the ignition.

It's tied to the fuses pointed out on the right which are in the same condition. I took my 12V from the screw.

That terminal wire is a bit light for powering the MSD unit. Remember you are sharing it with the accesories it was designed (and sized) to power! The MSD presents an incremental load beyond its design intent.

An easy way to get unswitched battery power is from the starter solenoid.

jluetjen · jluetjen's Garage

Chuck;
I was referring to the copper colored screw which has the big heavy guage red wire going to it in the picture. That screw is the Terminal Bar (item #60 on the '69 E/S wiring diagram) and is tied directly to the same starter terminal as the battary and the alternator. It has more then enough juice to run the MSD. It works great on my car. Unfortunately the arrow I added to this picture for a different thread months ago wasn't dead-on and maybe confused the matter.

SprintStar · 10-21-2003, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jluetjen
Chuck;
I was referring to the copper colored screw which has the big heavy guage red wire going to it in the picture. That screw is the Terminal Bar (item #60 on the '69 E/S wiring diagram) and is tied directly to the same starter terminal as the battary and the alternator. It has more then enough juice to run the MSD. It works great on my car. Unfortunately the arrow I added to this picture for a different thread months ago wasn't dead-on and maybe confused the matter.

Hello John,

No luck getting digital pics of my engine side firewall. The digicam's batteries crapped out on me and it's not midnight here.

All I can tell you is what I have and hopefully it's the same as yours.

My car is a '67S. No factory CDI. The PO installed the Crane XR-700.

I have in hand an old MSD 6AL box from my Bug and a MSD tach adaptor which has wires but no part number, so I don't know if it's a 8910 or 8920. What's the diff between them anyway?

I also have a unused MSD Blaster SS coil. PN 8207. I intend to mount it and use it too.

So, how's the wiring like? I think you have a Crane XR-700 too, right?

Thanks.

Sprint.

Superman · 10-21-2003, 10:53 AM

I apologize for the OT question, but I just got off the phone with a woman who believes her Ford Explorer weighs 6000 lbs, that her 1-ton pickup weighs 8500 lbs, and that her little Bobcat (six small rubber tires on a little construction buggy) can haul 6000 lbs in its loader bucket.

Without a hint of what I am thinking as I review these numbers, can someone give me their first reaction?

jluetjen · jluetjen's Garage

Bobcat? ... MSD?

What do these two things have in common? Superman, that is taking "hijacking" a thread to a new low!

SprintStar · 10-22-2003, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jluetjen
Bobcat? ... MSD?

What do these two things have in common? Superman, that is taking "hijacking" a thread to a new low!

Now to hijack John for myself again.... You got my PM, John? Waiting for ya mail. I'm keen to set up the MSD by tomorrow morning as I'm on leave! Hehe...

Sprint.

jluetjen · jluetjen's Garage

Quote:

Now to hijack John for myself again.... You got my PM, John? Waiting for ya mail. I'm keen to set up the MSD by tomorrow morning as I'm on leave! Hehe...

Been there -- done that -- did you get the email?