How to make salvage chassis\motor smoggable?

[Packy]

I am building a car from the ground up. The chassis did not come with the motor I'm putting in it and I don't know if the chassis has a salvaged title or not.

If I run a supercharger on my 3.0L and ran cats with the correct air fuel ration and it passes the sniffer, how can I get this thing to pass visual? Is there anything special I have to do to get it to be legally accepted? Some of the stuff that will be on the engine will not be CARB pre-accepted.

Any thoughts/suggestions are welcomed.

[Dirty Marty]

Packy,

Before you get any deeper into the matter, I'd go the the DMV and get their input.
They are probably going to tell you that you will need to go an arbitrator. I think that they may even give you a listing of places to go. A few years back a friend of mine was trying to bring a salvage/frankenstein back to life and he had to go through something like that ...............

Good Luck

Dirty Marty
Fallbrook, CA

[Flieger]

California is pretty stupid with that visual thing. They would rather see CIS installed than a cleaner EFI system.

[Trackrash]

Is the chassis a 79? You will have to use a motor that is the same year as or newer than the chassis for smog. And ALL the original SMOG and fuel injection and exhaust for the MOTOR will have to be there and functional.

The salvage title is another issue that you have to work with the DMV with.

As far as exceptions to the rules? Maybe Marty has some more info on that.

I do know a guy with a Honda S2000 that added a turbo. Supposedly it is a CARB approved kit. I have never heard of anything like that for a 911, but maybe others will chime in.

[Flieger]

I think you can use an older engine (case year) but it will have to meet the chassis year smog requirements.

[Dirty Marty]

Yo Flieger et.al.

As far as smog, Flieger's correct. The overriding consideration is the engine and the year that it was produced. The motor has to meet the standards for the year in question..........it could get a little hairy if the engine had California requirements that may have been a little tighter than the 49 state specs when the engine was build. As for the chassis it really doesn't matter...................the state will listed as "salvaged" on the title.

That's why I suggest that you go to the "wonderful" state employees at the the DMV to get the lay of the land so you can configure your motor to meet the requirements first before you put a lot of pesos into the motor only to have to change it back or worse.......

Good luck,

Dirty Marty
Fallbrook,CA

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by Flieger

I think you can use an older engine (case year) but it will have to meet the chassis year smog requirements.

That's actually not correct. The engine must be of equal age or newer than the chassis of the car. You cannot legally go backwards. That's a Federal law and has nothing to do with CA or not.

EDIT: Here's the PDF on the subject:

http://www.epa.gov/compliance/resources/policies/civil/caa/mobile/engswitch.pdf

[Packy]

The chassis is a 77 and the motor is a 79. The question is not if the stock 79 motor will work with the 77 chassis, because I know it will. The question is how can I modify the motor with a supercharger, EFI, race headers, etc. to pass smog LEGALLY.

I don't mind tuning the thing (or have a second air/fuel map for smog) and I don't mind using cats, but it would be nice to know how to do this and if it is even possible. I don't understand why some products are CARB approved and others are not. Shouldn't the determining factor be the smog test?

I am in Crack-ifornia, BTW.

Thanks for the help guys. This may help a lot of people out besides myself.

-P

[Matt Monson]

Packy,

You are correct, CARB certification is relevant to your goal. CARB certification is an expensive undertaking for a manufacturer and while California is a significant part of the high performance market, undertaking the testing protocols is something that many manufacturers (especially small ones like someone making a 911 supercharger kit) will not spend the money to do.

If your supercharger is not a manufactured kit and is something you made yourself there's no way to make it CARB legal. Seeing a BAR referee will not change that. Having a car that tests clean at the tailpipe will not change that. In short there will be no way to make your car street legal.

The S-title part of it is unrelated. To get an S-title cleared you generally have to have the physical repairs to the car inspected and approved as adequate to make the car safe for use on the road. It's got nothing to do with emissions and is a different matter all together.

[stlrj]

Originally Posted by Packy

The chassis is a 77 and the motor is a 79. The question is not if the stock 79 motor will work with the 77 chassis, because I know it will. The question is how can I modify the motor with a supercharger, EFI, race headers, etc. to pass smog LEGALLY.

Unfortunately, you will be subject to all the smog regulations just like a 79 without any exceptions. That means you will be subject to fines, like the rest of us, if any of the original smog equipment has been tampered or modified.

Cheers,

Joe

[Zeke]

I post this as pure speculation. You might investigate building the car up under another state's title and then pretend you bought the car and brought it here. I understand the sale and installation of parts that are CARB certified and not certified.

However, it may be more difficult for the state to require you to remove parts installed legally in another state. I see a lot of cars running GMC 671 blowers and I can't imagine them being CARB certified.

Just a thought and highly speculative at that.

[Flieger]

I have met a few people with relatives out of state who register their cars in Florida or Idaho or something.

[Dirty Marty]

All

Let me restate what I said and I know to be correct.

Where you have a vehicle in the state of California, it must meet the Smog Specifications and Equipment requirements in the year of manufacture of the vehicle. Where the engine has been changed out it must meet the newer requirements for either the engine or chassis, so you can't in fact go backwards.

Where it gets hairy and it sounds like that is what Packy is trying to do is run a modified engine that doesn't fit into a specific manufacturer's year or configuration. configuration regardless of the chassis's year.

Be prepared to be told that it will have to meet the 70 smog specs as well as equipment configuration. Sometimes they waive the equipment requirement if you can show that you meet the actual smog specs.

Dirty Marty
Fallbrook,CA

[Dirty Marty]

All,

Sorry pressed the wrong key...............that would be the 79 Specs for smog and configuration.........the car would still be documented as Salvaged on the title.

Dirty Marty
Fallbrook,CA

[Flieger]

Originally Posted by Flieger

I think you can use an older engine (case year) but it will have to meet the chassis year smog requirements.

What I meant was that if a '79 SC put a rod through the case, you could use a 74 case as long as the motor still passed the smog tests (and visual). Maybe that would just be because no one could know the "block year".

[Matt Monson]

Have you ever been through a BAR referee certification? I have. They have a lot of technical resources at their disposal and really put the car through the ringer. On a car like this, you can expect to spend several hours with the ref. I think there's a very good chance they would look up the serial number and type number of the engine and nail you for something like a '74 block in a '79 chassis.

Now if it was just a smog station, they wouldn't be any the wiser. But he said he wanted to make the car legal. To me that means a BAR sticker in the doorjam, which means a visit to the ref.

[Flieger]

That was all hypothetical, of course.

I am sure glad I have a '71

I am just nervous because I thought my '83 Bimmer was due for smog with registration this year but luckily it was not. Now I am hearing it will have to meet significantly tougher smog specs than last year! (from another thread).

[Dirty Marty]

Packy and All

I copied the attached information of of the CA DMV website.......I think it applies in this case. No matter how you look at it your in for a hassle.........

Dirty Marty
Fallbrook,CA

Specially Constructed Vehicles Emission Control
What is the Specially Constructed Vehicle Emission Control Program?
Existing law requires most 1976 and newer model year vehicles to pass an emissions control inspection (smog check) prior to original registration, transfer of ownership, and every second annual renewal. Since Specially Constructed Vehicles (SPCNS) are homemade and do not have a manufacturer-assigned model year, they must be taken to a Bureau of Automotive Repair (BAR) Referee Station for the original inspection. Upon completion of the inspection, the referee will affix a tamper-resistant label to the vehicle and issue a certificate that establishes the model-year for future inspection purposes.

Per California Vehicle Code §4750.1, the first 500 program applicants in each calendar year may choose whether the inspection is based on the model-year of the engine used in the vehicle or the vehicle model-year. If the engine or the vehicle does not sufficiently resemble one previously manufactured, the referee will assign 1960 as the model-year.

After the first 500 vehicles have been registered in any calendar year, all others will be assigned the same model-year as the calendar year in which the application is submitted.

Previously registered vehicles may be included as one of the first 500 applicants in a calendar year and apply for a different model-year determination.

What is an SPCNS Certificate of Sequence?
An SPCNS Certificate of Sequence identifies a vehicle as one for which the owner may choose emission control inspection based on the model-year of the engine used in the vehicle or the vehicle model-year. The certificate is issued by DMV Headquarters and will be mailed 7-10 working days after the application is accepted by your local DMV. The certificate must be presented to the BAR Referee Station at the time of inspection.

Per statute, only 500 certificates can be issued in a calendar year. Once the yearly allotment has been issued, applicants must wait until the following year to apply for a certificate.

SPCNS Certificates of Sequence cannot be transferred to a different vehicle or reissued in someone else's name. The seller of a vehicle must provide the buyer with the SPCNS Certificate of Sequence along with the bill of sale and any additional registration documents. In addition, fees deposited in one year cannot be held over for the next year's allocation of certificates.

Note: Due to the limited number of SPCNS Certificates of Sequence available, you may wish to submit your application for registration in person at a local DMV office

[Matt Monson]

I don't see how SPCNS laws would apply here. It's a 1977 Porsche chassis. It's not a kit car. It's a Porsche. The car's got a VIN.

[aigel]

The car will smog like a 79 SC - AFTER the referee makes sure it has a 79 engine with all the 79 smog equipment installed. Only if a 79 SC would get certified with that SC will this all work out.

There is a reason for the premium on 75 and earlier chassis.

Georg