Help: Problem After Installing Mitch Leland's Steering Column Bushing
 

Hey all,

so, over the past week, I've notices that the play in my steering column has become almost scary. Had ordered one of Mitch's bushings a while ago, but hadn't gotten around to installing it.

Well, now I felt the time had really come, so, I removed my steering wheel, followed the instructions as far as removing the star washer and th circlip. All went well.

I had a few different tools that I had to try to pick out any pieces of any sleeves that might be there.

I did find remnants of what appears to be a plastic sleeve, and I was wable to get a few small bits out, but using a dental pick In combination with the can opener on my leatherman, I was able to get a few very small pieces, but I could see that thee seemed that most of the sleeve was intact, but had just fallen behind the small space where the sleeve is supposed to be.

After about an hour I gave up, as the instructions say that remnants haven't really caused poblems in the past.

Amazingly, when I went to install mitch's bushing, i was pretty much able to get it seated by hand. It just seemed to slide in to place with some resistance, but it's fit matched te picture that accompanied the instructions. I gave it a few taps just in case, but it sounded fine.

I installed the circlip (I did have to tighten that down), and then installed the momo hub, wheel, etc.

I took it for a test drive before torquing down the nut on the column itself. It seemed to drive fine, though I was focusing on whether I got the splines lined up, but overall, it drove ok.

When I torqued it down, and then took it for a drive, I could tell there was something wrong, especially when turning to the right.

The first symptom was that the steering felt SIGNIFICANTLY heavier than it used to. In fact, as I said above, if I turned to the right and let go of the wheel, the steering would not return back to center. It would stay turned, forcing me to steer it back to straight.

I have no idea what happened. I don't know if I really overtightened it accidentally, or what, but I just really hopet that I didn't hurt something.

Oh, I did vaguely hear a kind of crunching sound intermittently when turning the wheel, which I'm assuming is the old sleeve that got pushed back behind the new bushing.

Has anyone had this experience? I called it a day after I got back from the test drive after the one that first indicated the problem where I loosened the nut on the steering column, but I didn't notice a difference.

Anyway, HELP!!! Heh.

Thanks in advance everyone.

Michael

I have personally seen this happen with the Leland bushing. I think the way the Leland bushing works is it eliminates any play between the steering column bearing and the steering shaft, forcing the steering column bearing to do it's job. If your steering column has had play for some time (years?) then it's possible the steering column bearing is fubar and not providing smooth motion.

Perhaps you could pull the Leland bushing and lubricate the column bearing? Maybe lubricating the bearing will free it up enough to provide smooth action.

If that doesn't work then I think the proper solution is to (ugh) replace the steering column bearing.

Another option is to replace the Leland bushing with a greased quick-fix sleeve and put up with a slight amount of play in the shaft. Regrease periodically.

I'm curious what you end up doing. In my case we ended up using less torque on the steering wheel nut, along with some blue locktite to keep the nut in place. This helped. Eventually (after a couple hundred miles of forcing the steering wheel left to right) the steering column bearing loosened up enough to provide decent steering feel (wheel returning to center, etc). But there still is a bit of 'stiction' in the system. I don't think the stiction will go away completely until the steering column bearing is replaced - which means pulling the steering column.

I haven't heard of anyone else having this problem. While it's a bummer you're experiencing this I'm glad I'm not the only one!

Did you use an impact wrench to torque the steering wheel down? Have you used one in the past?

You say it drove fine before torquing down, but the problem appeared after you tightened the nut.

That tells me that you (1) overtightened the steering wheel nut, damaging the c-clip, causing drag between the steering wheel and the bushing, or (2) the c-clip was damaged already, or worse, bent or twisted. In that case, you will need a new c-clip. The steering wheel really can't turn unless it's bottomed out on the c-clip, once it's tightened. You can't damage the c-clip or you will get interference.

Never use an impact wrench on the steering wheel. Be careful to tighten to specification.

Well, honestly, I haven't had the problem for that long. It's possible that it was there, but that I never noticed it, but honestly, it's only been onver the past few months that the problem has become really bad.

I'm sure that my steering wheel setup has something to do with the quick degredation, as I have the momo hub, a quick release (about 2-2.5" thick), and a 1/2" momo spacer.

I'm about 6'2"-6'3", and mostly legs, so I needed to figure out how to be able to have my seat further back, and also be in the proper position for the steering wheel. In the stock position, I could barely drive. Anytime I turned the steering wheel, my legs were in the way.

I dunno, I know that what I've done has put the wheel a bit further out than stock, but some of the deep dished aftermarket wheels out there put the wheels pretty close to where I'm at.

Maybe this will give some insights?

Also, I this helps, even when there was a very small amount of wiggle in the steering column, the steering was definitely not overly stiff. In fact, as soon as I'd start moving, the steering would become very light and feel very solid.

I dunno. I REALLY REALLY don't want to do the steering column. I'm pretty intimidated by that job. From what I hear, it's very difficult.

Michael

Wow. I'll be shocked if simply replacing the c-clip fixes this issue. Major kudos to rusnak if that's the case!

In my case a impact wrench wasn't used. Proper torquing was. Same overall problem that UrQuattro is experiencing. In my case after backing off on the torque a bit, and turning the steering wheel left and right for a few hundred miles, the problem lessened. Still...it's not perfect but pretty good. A bit of stiction at dead center. Perhaps I should replace my c-clip?!

I don't have an impact wrench, but I also don't have a torque wrench with me right now. I have a full set of them, but they are at my sister's ex husband's house, and he was supposed to have delivered all of her and my possessions, but he is pretty scummy.

Actually, the first thing I was gonna do tomorrow was check the c-clip. My thought was that I might have hurt it.

So, if I damaged it via overtorquing the nut, can I pull it off and flatten it out and try again, or do I just have to get a new one?

Do dealers have them?

Michael

I'm 6' 4" and running a 930S steering wheel with hub kit and spacer. I too REALLY don't want to replace the steering column bearing.

Perhaps I should reinstall a stock wheel and see if the problem remains.

Think about it. What clearance is increased when you loosen the steering wheel nut? Having a Momo hub, and a spacer has nothing to do with it, so you can eliminate that. If you over torque the steering wheel nut, the c-clip will go concave (or convex I get them mixed up), and then the steering wheel will contact the steering bushing, forcing it to try to turn inside the steering column.

Take the steering wheel off, and look for evidence on the steering wheel bushing of contact with the steering wheel hub. The c-clip is there to prevent contact between these parts. Just think through it.

Kaefer-

see that's the difference, on center, it feels totally normal. It's when I move the wheel at least 45 degrees off center that it stays in that position until I force it back to straight. It's pretty scary.

Michael

ps. I'd never use an impact wrench to tighten something like this. But, I'm pretty sure, looking back on it that I really did overtorque it.

The hub spacer will make your steering feel heavier, but that's a completely different problem.

You said you had to "tighten up" the c-clip. It might be damaged already. You can try to fix it, but you'd be so much better off just buying a new one.

Trust me. I know the feeling. Mine was the EXACT same way. I could turn the steering wheel 45 degrees and if I let go of the steering wheel it would stay at 45 degrees. Not cool.

Before I gave up on the Leland bushing I turned the steering wheel back and forth a bizillion times and it freed itself up a good bit. Now I just have a bit of stiction when moving the steering wheel from dead center.

I hear ya and understand. I think what you're saying is I may have a damaged c-clip (now concave/convex instead of flat) that when the steering wheel nut is fully torqued to spec perhaps the c-clip is pushing the Leland bushing into the steering bearing, causing stiction.

Or perhaps the c-clip is fine and the face of the Leland bushing should be machined down a wee bit to provide additional clearance between the bushing and the c-clip.

I'll take off my 930 wheel and take a look.

Pics from the bushing thread (not my car) just for reference:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1219127080.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1246818144.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1259220361.jpg

I just went out and checked. I just HAD to know if there was contact from the momo hub and if the circlip is deformed.

Rusnack - you rawk!! There is DEFINITE deformation to the circlip toward the bushing, and there are scuff marks all over the surface of the Leland bushing from turning the steering wheel.

Oh, an when I said that I had to tighten the circlip a little when I reinstalled it, i was just following the suggestion in Mitch's instructions. Since the circlip is removed and then installed again, it stretched out slightly. Circlips will do this.

So I'm gonna call my local pcar shop tomorrow and see if they have one of these circlips in stock, and get oe from them.

The other option is to remove it again, flatten it out, re-install it, and torque it down correctly.

So I think you saved me a night of no sleep. THANK YOU THANK YOU!!

Though, none of this is completely confirmed, so it isn't a 100% for sure yet... But pretty close.

Michael

The top pic is right after the bushing was installed, prior to c-clip installation.

The second pic shows the star washer (incorrectly) left in place.

Look at that bottom pic. No way that's going to work. The bushing needs to seat against the bearing. Probably something like a star washer or bits of plastic in the way.

Very cool. I'll try and check mine tomorrow. This is a very DUHHH moment for me if my problem is also due to a bent c-clip!

(I have a feeling I'm going to find a self-clearanced Leland bushing in place!)

No offense to Mr. Leland or to anyone else, but this thread is making me mighty happy that I relied on the old shaving-cream-can-lid solution to this problem. I'm just sayin'....

Scott,

I've been out of town so I'm just getting up to speed on this... This bushing works, we've sold "a lot" of these and with few exceptions they work flawlessly. When they don't it usually boils down to some gotcha problem.

I'm not sure what you were trying to show with your pictures... Naturally you're aware that the "star washer" has to be removed before installing the new bushing. The last picture shows the new bushing riding way up on the steering column, what were you trying to show with this picture?

The top of the bushing has to be seated to allow some clearance between the "C" clip and the top of the bushing. You can determine this before installing the "C" clip by just looking at the "C" clip groove. If the top of the bushing is not below the bottom part of the "C" clip groove then there is a problem.

When you remove the "C" clip it opens up so when you go back with it you need to pitch it back up. If you don't do this then when you tighten the steering wheel you might easily force the steering hub and the "C" clip down the steering shaft on to the new bushing. I'm just throwing out ideas...

Would you verify that you have clearance below the "C" clip groove, if you don't then we need to see why you don't.

If you like you can PM me and I will give you my e-mail address so we can get at your problem and resolve it. I want to be sure you have a good experience with our bushing...

The shaving cream or paint can lid trick is a poor man's fix, which I sort of think is useful to wean people off of the 928 sleeve, which has problems. The Mitch Leland bushing is a permanent fix.

Mitch,

I LOVE your design. I dont know if any of your message was to me, but there was definitely room between your bushing and the circlip groove.

And as you said, when you pull it out over the steering column it gets stretched open. When i first tried putting it back on, it didn't fit securely, so I just removed it and used a pair of pliars to close the circlip a little.

As to 5string43 - the problem that I had with the installation was that I severely OVERTORQUED the steering column nut upon reinstallation.

Why would you inferr that to be a fault of this bushing's design.

I am very excited to get this little issue resolved tomorrow so that my steering column ha no more play, and I'll NEVER have to worry about failure.

I just don't understand why you would want to use the top of a shaving can in an area that is so important and which has an amazingly well engineered solution available that will last longer than the car, will never allow play in the column again, and is actually engineered for the job that it is doing.

That is like using duct tape to close up a split cv boot. Stuff some grease in there and then wrap the he'll out of it with duct tape. Sure it might seem like a good solution (an I know it works for thousands of miles), but it is no the correct solution.

Michael

I took my steering wheel off this morning to take a look. Here's what I found:

1. The bushing is flush with the c-clip channel. It is also bottomed out against the bearing.

2. There is a lip on the 930S hub that is contacting the bushing (sliding over the c-clip). You can see the wear marks on the bushing from self clearancing. I'm pretty sure this self clearancing is the drag I'm feeling when moving the steering wheel off center. Hopefully not the steering bearing like I was originally thinking!

3. The bushing is bottomed out against the bearing, star washer removed and the bushing is installed according to instructions. I verified again today that the bushing is bottomed out against the bearing.

4. I have been using less torque on the steering nut, combined with a small bit of blue locktite to prevent loosening, and the steering has been good except for a small amount of drag/stiction when moving the wheel off center.

5. In my situation I think if some bushing face material was removed, basically so the face is almost flush with the allen bolt heads, then I wouldn't have anymore interference between the hub and the bushing.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1285851765.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1285851782.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1285851814.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1285851840.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1285851883.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1285851892.jpg

Here's one more pic that shows how the c-clip sits inside the steering hub. *Note* this c-clip is from a different car - I was just using it for the picture (the c-clip I'm using is still attached to the column). I think I can see in the pic that the clip is bent - which is what rusnak is saying. The clip I used on this example pic came off a stock '87 Carrera with stock wheel.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1285854179.jpg

I don't think that your bushing is fully seated. It should be able to seat about 1/16-1/8 further in.

On the steering column, there is a symmetrical cutout where the circlip sits. Before you put the circlip on, you should be able To see the entire taper for the circlip.

So, when I put the circlip back on, there was plenty of room behind it. It was not flush with the circlip. It took my over torquing the column nut to essentially force it in to contact with the bushing.

I dunno, maybe try pulling it, fishing around for any pieces that prevent it from sitting right and see if it seats better.

That's my first response after seeing the pictures.

Michael

Scott,

The bushing is certainly set in the proper position so that is not the problem... Can you confirm if the 3 Allan head screws are dragging a circle on the top of the bushing? I can't remember, but those screws look larger than the ones on my horn ring... I remember the screws being brass. Maybe someone could verify if they are the stock size?

I can turn down the top of the bushing for you if that would solve your problem... If you tell me how much clearance you need I will send you another bushing with a reduced height.

Mitch,

I don't think the screws are dragging. I think the circle of the hub is dragging on the bushing face.

The parts in red are where I think the drag is coming from:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1285857884.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1285857895.jpg

Is there supposed to be a press fit between the hub/c-clip/bushing/bearing? Or is there supposed to be a gap between the hub/c-clip and bushing/bearing?

If there's supposed to be a gap (I think there is) then I do think machining down the bushing face will fix my problem. I'll pull the bushing and take a few measurements.

Thanks for the help. I guess I should have contacted you months ago!

BTW...I wonder if there's slight differences in steering shaft lengths over the years? Or I wonder if my steering shaft is sitting slightly lower in the column that "normal"?

If there is supposed to be a gap between the c-clip/steering hub and the bushing then I'd say my bushing could be turned down perhaps 4mm. I'd also consider wanting to add 4mm of material to the section that goes under the bearing just in case the bushing moves in/out a bit. A possible catch - by turning down the bushing 4mm it's possible that the allen screws used for removal may need to be slightly shorter. 2 or 3mm may do it but I think 4mm is a safe number (if a gap is ok).

The current width of the bushing section between the bearing and the c-clip is ~16.5mm. If it was 12.5mm there should be plenty of room between the hub/c-clip and the bushing face.

BTW my car is a 1977.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1285859660.jpg

I agree with this. From the picture, the bushing has the appearance of one not fully seated.

Trust me, the bearing was fully seated. I could see marks on the back of the bushing and on the bearing that verifies this.

The only other thing I can think of is that my steering column shaft sits more inward into the column than most cars. This would make the bushing sit higher on the shaft, and still be fully seated against the bearing.

Another possibility is there are differences in the shafts.

Another thing - I think the dimensions of this bushing may have changed at some point. I think I ordered mine pretty early on.

Check out this post:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/480462-mitch-lelands-steering-wheel-bushing-2.html#post5032947

salukijac's bushing:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1259219996.jpg

My bushing:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1285859660.jpg

Mine doesn't have that step in the middle...although I don't know what difference that makes.

More data:

The width of the steering shaft between the bearing and c-clip groove is ~15mm. I checked this on my '77 driver and my '87 parts car.

The width of my bushing in this section is ~16.5mm.

So my bushing is wider than that section of steering shaft by 1.5mm.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1285864367.jpg

Scott,

Let's do this... PM me your address and I'll send you another bushing. If your bushing doesn't have the step, then in fact you do have a very, very early bushing and that may account for some of the problem.

Mitch,

We can do that. Before you ship me a bushing though can you provide me with the current measurements?

Also, what is the purpose of the step in the current design?

Thanks,

I just installed mine on an 89. It had the step and I had to set it pretty firmly to seat all the way. I torqued the nut to the specification and so far, it works beautifully. I did not have a lot of debris to clean up from the old bearing but I used a pipe cleaner. I could fit it in between the shaft and the bearing and work my way around. All the small pieces came out.
Mark

Scott,

I'll get back to you tomorrow with the dimension you asked for, ran out of time today...

Scott,

Reference: from the bottom of the step to the top of the bushing - .640"

FYI: the step keeps the bottom face of the bushing from riding on the roller bearing. The step rides only on the inner face of the bearing race so there's no drag between the bushing and bearing.

Your new bearing will be in the afternoon mail. I hope it will solve the problem. However your present bushing is within .005" of the bushing I'm sending you so there still might be another problem. Given both of our measurements, that's only 2 human hairs.

If the new bushing doesn't help your problem you can send it back and we'll turn the face down to give you additional clearance. For some reason your roller bearing might be sitting higher, or your steering shaft is riding lower in the housing. This is one fix that's better than the factory part so it's worth the trouble to get it right.

Mitch,

Do you think it might be a good idea to machine 2-3mm off the face of the bushing before you send it to me?

Thanks for the help,

Scott, just take a flat file and file some material off, since you've got a new one coming anyway. If it works, then send it back for analysis and follow up evaluation.

I'm wondering now if the bearing itself is fully seated in the steering column tube. Scott, can you see if the race (with the busing removed) is turning smoothly? You might need a small screwdriver to turn the race on it's ball bearing.

Scott,

Russ has a good idea... I'm still hoping that maybe on further investigation that maybe there's something under the bushing or the roller bearing isn't seated all the way down. We've sold a lot of these bushings and have had only 2 problems in all the bushings we've sold. The tolerances for this bushing are very close so everything has to be in order for a proper fit. So I'm hoping that maybe one more shot at it might do the trick...

Time for an update on my stiction/dragging issue I was having with the bushing: I removed the bushing and filed off 3-4mm of material from the face of the bushing, then reinstalled the bushing, hub, and steering wheel. BINGO. No more stiction/dragging. Everything is as smooth as smooth can be. So much so that I'm finding I need to relearn my steering feel. There was more stiction/dragging than I thought there was.

Mitch did send me an updated bushing but I haven't had a chance to install it.

Can anyone out there who happens to have their steering wheel off measure the distance from the steering column bearing to the edge of the circlip groove? On both my '77 and '87 this distance is roughly 15mm. Check out the pic below to see the measurement I'm looking for:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1285864367.jpg

UrQuattro - what about you? Did a new circlip resolve your steering problem?

Scott,

Have you measured the new bushing I sent you? It should be approx. 16.3mm, or .643" including the step. The step rides/sits on the inner face of the roller bearing to reduce the friction between the bushing and the roller bearing.

We've sold "a lot" of these bushings all with the same dimensions. I have had 2 previous problems that I have resolved, but these 2 are unique to this height problem.

If you can tell me how much additional clearance you need I'll machine off the top face if you return the bushing to me.

PM me with the details...