Best exhaust with heat for a 3.2?

[safe]

I have a 3.2 engine, not yet in my car, without any exhaust system at all.

I was thinking of moving my pre 74 heat exchanger and muffler from the engine I have in my car now, but I have read here that it's slightly to small for the 3.2.

What is the best alternative if I want heat in my car? A B&B? Doesn't Pelican Parts sell those anymore?

How big should the headers be? It's stock internally (for the moment at least) but with an ITBs and EFI.

[Rot 911]

Your pre-74 system will work. Yes the diameter of the pipes are not the optimum size, but I have yet to hear that anyone has noticed a decrease in power. I have SSI's and they added some good low end grunt. Maybe the power is lost on the upper end?

[cgarr]

B&B gives good heat and tube size but then you have to use their muffler or "boat anchor" unless you custom one. I think SSI would be a good all around choice.

[RWebb]

I've been told by people who should know that SSIs are fine on a 3.2L for street or hot rod use.

If you are camming the beejesus out of a track motor then you will need larger pipes.

SSIs are stainless and one of the few items made better than the factory part.

[RWebb]

I've been told by people who should know that SSIs are fine on a 3.2L for street or hot rod use.

If you are camming the beejesus out of a track motor then you will need larger pipes.

SSIs are stainless and one of the few items made better than the factory part.

[Quicksilver]

Originally Posted by cgarr

B&B gives good heat and tube size but then you have to use their muffler or "boat anchor" unless you custom one. I think SSI would be a good all around choice.

The B&Bs are sized better for the 3.2 then the SSIs unless you are more concerned with the lower RPM ranges. When you are at full throttle, running each gear to redline, you are in the RPM range where the B&B wins.

The SSIs do make better power across the whole range then the stock exhaust but that isn't a great comparison because the stock exhaust system is the real bottleneck in the 3.2s.

That said...
I have the B&Bs on my car. (Got a great deal) With a list price of over $2k they won't bolt up to the car without hacking away at it! (Did they ever try bolting it on the car?)
- The tube for the driver's side heat exchanger goes through the engine tin at the front. You have to cut a half circle of the tin away to clear the tube. There is no reason that they didn't extend the tube another inch or so forward so it would clear.
- The heat crossover is 1-1/2" short on one side so I had to add an additional slip fitting so it would line up.
- The passenger side primaries run through the oil drain back hose from the tank back to the engine. B&B has a goofy metal tube that goes upwards to clear the exhaust so you have a bit of a sewer trap arrangement for the oil drain back (which is just dumb). I copied Jack Olsen's solution which was to create a heat shield and jam it between the header and the hose.
- You have to change the oil lines to the early style but that isn't a big deal because you have to do that for the SSIs too.

All in all I like the end result with the B&Bs partially because I got a killer deal on them and it really opened up the upper RPMs. It likes to pull past the redline now and I don't have it chipped yet. I wish it was quieter but everyone else but me (including the wife) loves it. I am probably going to put a more conventional muffler like a dynomax on it to see if it tones down the ricey sound.

If SSI would make a 1-5/8 header I would say to hell with B&B but they aren't interested.

[safe]

Didn't know there was so many issues mounting the B&B to the engine. With that kind of price tag you would expect something better.

Are the any other alternatives?

I saw some cheap OBX headers, I wonder how hard it would be to fabricate a heater box around them...

Maybe I'll stay with my pre 74 system. Its not stainless but that's only good from a cooling perspective.

[KTL]

Don't forget there's GHL headers. Never used them but many say they fit very well. Also cost very well too.

The B&B are a really nice header. Muffler is way too expensive IMO. I'd use a Dynomax 17276 like Patrick B did on his OBX headers. He got a lot of HP out of this muffler with Steve Wong tuning his chip.

http://www.dynomax.com/ecat/pdfs/ultrafloss.pdf see page 2

I agree with Wayne about the oil line routing on the B&B. Their braided line is estupido and one should instead use the factory SSI lines. Much cleaner install. Also, another PITA part of the B&B headers is accessing some of the exhaust port studs. Their wacky wrench is a pain to use. I'd recommend NOT using lock nuts (use plain class 8 13mm hex size nuts) and get yourself a good 13mm universal socket and a crowsfoot too.

Bottom line, the B&B headers are really nice. Just forget about their muffler and instead have a shop hook up a good dual-in dual out muffler like a Dynomax or a Magnaflow. Notice I didn't mention Flowmaster- LOUD. I will give B&B credit for their muffler bracket though. I pirated this bracket and Clampco band clamps to install my 1-in 1-out Dynomax 17676 Super Turbo

[Bill Verburg]

B&B makes 2 sizes of header 1 5/8"primary OD is appropriate for 3.2-3.4 relatively stock, 1 3/4" primary OD for 3.6 -3.8 relatively stock

SSI @ 1 1/2" primary OD is ok at low revs but will be like trying to sprint w/ surgical mask on, you can do it but it's not best.

Fabspeed makes a somewhat nicer header setup than the B&B and the mufflers sound great(but not too loud), B&B mufflers are junk(just my experience)

If headers are too rich, the next best thing is A Fabspeed cat by pass, maybe w/ a free flow muffler

[safe]

GHL are listed NLA, whats up with that?

Yes, the muffler can't be to loud, the car must pass a 95 db check. 95 db is the track limit here.

[Rot 911]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

SSI @ 1 1/2" primary OD is ok at low revs but will be like trying to sprint w/ surgical mask on, you can do it but it's not best.

Bill, I have heard this I don't know how many times on here and just wonder if there are any dyno charts to back it up?

From a personal perspective, when I rebuilt my 3.2 I went with 964 cams, SSI's and a Steve W chip. My 3.2 screams up to redline in first with no apparent degradation in power in the other gears.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by safe

GHL are listed NLA, whats up with that?

Yes, the muffler can't be to loud, the car must pass a 95 db check. 95 db is the track limit here.

You definitely don't want a B&B header w/ a Flowmaster or B&B muffler then. I was in a 964 Cup clone last week w/ the Fabspeed headers and muffler, it sounded great and not a whole bunch louder than stock.

[Bill Verburg]

I've dynoed stock 250hp 3.6 that show 207 w/ ssi, and 230 stock, this is at the wheels.

ssi have 1 1/2" OD 1 3/8" ID primaries and were designed for 2.0 - 2.4( they started making those things before 2.7 was out) liter engines. Why are you surprised that it would increasingly strangle an engine as it gets bigger or revs higher.

[RarlyL8]

A buddy of mine had a 3.2 Carrera engine punched to 3.4L and built up well.
SSIs were used to keep the heat. Dynoed many many times for an average of 248HP at the wheels with a 7300rpm redline.
They certainly did not choke that engine.

[safe]

I'm hoping this engine will produce ~250 hp so the exhaust must support that and even a bit more in the future.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by RarlyL8

A buddy of mine had a 3.2 Carrera engine punched to 3.4L and built up well.
SSIs were used to keep the heat. Dynoed many many times for an average of 248HP at the wheels with a 7300rpm redline.
They certainly did not choke that engine.

It was logic like that that led to Galileos run in w/ the inquesition.

Maybe it would put out 260 w/ properly sized headers

Just as an aside this is why I don't like to throw out dyno #s, they are only useful for back to back comparisons on the same dyno.

[mb911]

ssi's will support 250 hp easily
I would never use the following

B&B too costly and stuck with a bad muffler design
GHL again to costly and stuck with at the very least a GHL only muffler(no others fit it just like B&B)
Fabspeed simply because for the most part the big 3 look pretty much the same and share that 1 only muffler route.

You are better off with georges Euro headers and a muffler of your choosing(at least 10 different mufflers will fit them)

or bursh,OBX

ssis if you need heat
The reason i make these statements is that every body has a different opionion of what sounds good and what is loud and not loud. the last 3 options give a huge variety to choose from

[DUK]

I wouldn't trade mi SSI's and M&K for anything. Just ask anyone who has driven with me. The sound is true Porsche. And it dyno'd 241 at the wheels.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by mb911

ssi's will support 250 hp easily
I would never use the following

B&B too costly and stuck with a bad muffler design

You do not need to use the B&B mufflers, which I agree are junk, the alternative mufflers like Flowmaster and Dynomax are not bad designs, just loud.

Originally Posted by mb911

Fabspeed simply because for the most part the big 3 look pretty much the same and share that 1 only muffler route.

could your being in the muffler business be coloring your judgement?

Originally Posted by mb911

You are better off with georges Euro headers and a muffler of your choosing(at least 10 different mufflers will fit them)

or bursh,OBX

no heat-which is prerequiste specified in the original post

mild steel construction - which limits durability

Originally Posted by mb911

The reason i make these statements is that every body has a different opionion of what sounds good and what is loud and not loud. the last 3 options give a huge variety to choose from

Loud is not an opinion for those that track, many if not most track venues measure and can quantify loud very accurately. An owner is certainly entitled to his opinion as to the quality and quantity of sound emitted by his vehicle but tracks will do something about it whether you like it or not.

[gtc]

My B&B single out muffler has great sound, and is certainly not too loud. It's really heavy though.
My heat with them really sucks (while the headers are nice, the heater boxes are shoddy at best - pretty leaky), but I have also backdated the heat which hurt the output somewhat.
The oil line issuse is a problem I'm still working out. I don't like the look of B&B's hard line, so I'm going to try to modify an oil tank to accept an AN fitting so I can fit a flexible line.