What exactly does "bullet proof" mean as it relates to engines?

[stone43]

I see the expression "bullet proof" used quite often by all of the regular pelican heads. I understand the obvious implications of what this means, but I was hoping to better understand the specifics, preferrably with my 3.2 with 115k and no maintenance history.

One thing you will never see me do is post pictures with my buddies standing around the freshly removed engine from my 911. But being the giving person that I am, I will be more than willing to share repair bill information.

[boyo]

How about this: an example of NOT bullet proof...



-Boyo

[Planter91C2]

it just means dependable, that's all.

you have alot of life left with 115k (assuming good maintenance)

[ChrisBennet]

Originally posted by boyo
How about this: an example of NOT bullet proof...


Now that is quite the windage mod!

[stone43]

Ok, let's add another twist.....how much oil can I burn (smell it when I pull into the garage), leak (nice little grouping on the garage floor--would qualify for a USMC marksman medal) or wherever else it goes?

In other words, what is acceptable consumption?

[jwetering]

Well...the leakage can be measured directly by putting a measuring cup under the drip, and collecting over a month ( or whatever).

Usage from a consumption point of view is the real measure. I've heard that 1 litre (quart) per 1500 miles is considered normal.

Note that the capacity of your system is (nominally) 11 litres.

[Doug Zielke]

BULLET-PROOF = 911 SC

[911pcars]

Doug wrote:
BULLET-PROOF = 911 SC

Hey SCWDP, this only applies if you can squeeze it into an Abrams tank or purchase the latest carbon/kevlar lower valve covers and air shroud kit.

Sherwood Lee
pre-SC
http://members.rennlist.org/911pcars

[makaio]

Untill your burnning a quart every 400 miles or less, you got nothing to worry about!

[Doug Zielke]

Originally posted by 911pcars
Doug wrote:
BULLET-PROOF = 911 SC

Hey SCWDP, this only applies if you can squeeze it into an Abrams tank or purchase the latest carbon/kevlar lower valve covers and air shroud kit.

Sherwood Lee
pre-SC
http://members.rennlist.org/911pcars

I think our Founder and President can supply those if required.

[red911]

My 83 SC has 177k + and running strong
I was told that is not alot on a 3.0L

[speeder]

I looked up "bulletproof" in my dictionary, sure enough it had a picture of a nice 911SC. "Tougher than a $2.00 steak", as my old man use to say.

[Obin Robinson]

bulletproof:

1) the car will start in 100+ degree weather and not overheat even when idling in traffic.

2) the engine will start in sub-zero weather and not blow an oil seal.

3) the engine will run up to redline and bounce off the limiter without a problem, all day long, and never fail.

4) the engine will go an extremely long time even when out of tune, low on oil pressure, and running near the maximum coolant temp mark.

5) the engine doesn't leak oil, leak coolant, have weak hoses, or bad seals.

6) even when running on low compression, or uneven compression (one cylinder down), the engine will run for tens of thousands of miles.

7) the engine is good for 200,000+ miles without a rebuild.

8) the crankcase is good for 300,000+ miles without a rebuild.

9) bonus: the engine won't self destruct in a cataclysmic failure if a belt, chain, or other component fails. this is known as a "limp home" feature because the car will still run to a service area even though a major component has failed.

now, how many bulletproof engines can you name?

obin

[Wrecked944]

Obin is speaking (writing?) the Truth. "Bullet-proof" is my 22 year old 911SC 3.0 litre engine with 166k miles, five broken head studs, and 20% compression leaks on all six cylinders which *still* fires up strong every day regardless of weather, temperature, etc. I also red line it and run it up to 90mph on the Mass Pike daily. I make it a point to race past at least one "ricer car" (i.e. Honda Civic with HUGE tail pipe and low-profile tires) every day - and I'm sure they have no idea that the tail lights receding into the distance at 90+ are being propelled by a "blown" engine. *That* is bullet-proof.

STONE43: Okay, all kidding (and testosterone) aside, the *real* answer to your question will only come from a hands-on inspection of your car by a qualified Porsche mechanic. If you haven't already had a PPI (pre-purchase inspection), have one done - even if you've already purchased your car. It will be the first document in your maintenance history should you ever decide to sell. If you live in New England, I can help you find a top notch mechanic. But if not, I'm sure the other folks on this BBS can offer names. You can also search the archives since the question "where can I find a good local mechanic?" is a relatively common thread. Best of luck !!

[stone43]

Obin, great post! That was some excellent reading. Janus, I did have a pre-inspection done, all cylindars firing strong (160+), a few oil leaks, which I am still trying to get used to cleaning up, no wrecks.

I am burning oil somewhere though. I have not calculated the oil-in/oil-out ratio yet but will start keeping track. I also get a nice little blue cloud upon start up, but nothing after it gets a little warm.

[Roland Kunz]

We rebuild a 71 2,2 S engine who runed 2 years/50 000 km later without cooling fan untill the oil temp peeged totaly up and the pressure totaly down while the engine blocked the rear axle ( long story ). Everyone said the engine will not have survived that.

The car was trailored to Porsche Werk I to have a repair estimate.
It missed some 5 L oil and after they looked trough it they decided to run it again. ( Just for showing the attentants how a wrecked engine sounds ) After restart it just runed a bit rough and had lower oilpressure but no bad noises. They decided then to drive it on for a while and donīt use it as a daily driver for short distances anymore.

In fact this is now some 8 years and 80 000 kms ago. Since that incident the engine sound different and donīt "goes" like before, missing 10 km/h topspeed but the vital number are still abouve brand new rebuilt engines we had seen from the competition.

The owner from the car is a Porsche supplier and Porsche is
loaning that car sometimes to show how a good 2,2 is looking and runing. ( On the 50 year parade this was the only early 911 beside a 2,7RS driving in the official parade. They always say that they made the car, in fact if you look in the title it says Porsche AG ). Before the little misshap that car runs faster then new 964īs. The owner also had pushed the car regular on race tracks pissing of his friends trying to follow him with new Porsches

Its all the driver.

A other thing is since that all his cars where bought via us ( or direct new from Porsche ) and we service, repair, restore them.
Now thats some 5 911īs one Devin D with Porsche engine and right now i get dirty hands on restoring a 59 Abarth/Zagato 750 GT. Hopefull ready at the Mille Miglia.

Grüsse

[Wrecked944]

"Janus, I did have a pre-inspection done, all cylindars firing strong (160+), a few oil leaks, which I am still trying to get used to cleaning up, no wrecks."

Oh Dude, then you're golden. Welcome to the 911 Club and drive to your heart's content. If you passed the PPI and you've got good compression, then it is very likely that "bullet-proof" = "your car". Rock 'n' Roll. Send us some pics !!

"I am burning oil somewhere though. I have not calculated the oil-in/oil-out ratio yet but will start keeping track."

There are some common causes for this. And if you passed the PPI - then most are likely relatively harmless. An archive search will reveal all or most of them. You might actually be leaking instead of burning. My valve covers leaked for a while. Easy fix. I also had a few rubber oil lines that dry rotted and cracked. Also very easy to fix. The hardest was my oil pressure sender - they seem to frequently leak at the gasket (I think?)...it looked hard so I had my mechanic fix it. It took him all of about 20 minutes - including explaining the problem and showing me the parts. Lots of folks have leaky "oil return" tubes. Mine seem to be okay after 22 years of (ab)use. I understand Pelican (and others) sell a pretty simple kit to fix the oil return tubes if they leak. All in all, if it isn't a ton of oil, I'd ignore it. I honestly believe they *all* leak some oil unless they've just been freshly rebuilt. LOL...Okay, I will probably get flamed by the 2% of 911 owners who don't leak *any* oil...but the rest will likely nod in silent agreement.

"I also get a nice little blue cloud upon start up, but nothing after it gets a little warm."

The experts can probably speak with greater authority on this but...I believe this is pretty normal and totally okay. Unless I am mistaken, the "flat six" engine design allows oil to accumulate on the bottom of the cylinders when the engine is off. In a V6 or V8, the oil would drain down into the crank case. But since the crank case in a 911 is "beside" the cylinders instead of "below" the cylinders, the oil just sits there and drips down to the lowest point. So when you fire it up, a bit of oil quickly burns off. No biggie.

And hey, welcome again to the 911 Club!

[speeder]

Janus is 100% correct- brand new air-cooled 911's delivered one puff of oil smoke upon cold start-up. When I sold them at dealer in '86 and '87, we always pushed the new 911's off of the showroom floor and started them outside because of this- totally normal charactristic of car- no problem driving them IN to SR and moving around once started outside, of course. Good luck w/ car!