73.5 cis help - Page 2

Gogar · 01-05-2011, 05:22 PM

Cool! I mean cool that you found it! That's a great feeling.

gwmac · 01-05-2011, 05:35 PM

What did you use to seal the two halves? Never got mine to seal correctly after disassembly.

HarryD · 01-05-2011, 05:42 PM

You may want to look at this thread for some ideas on reassembly.

CIS fuel distributer cleanout w/pics

kodioneill · kodioneill's Garage

I like the pill container idea.

gibran911 · 01-06-2011, 05:51 AM

gwmac,
I used the same method as the linked thread above. Permatex - High tack gasket sealer.
Again, I wont know how well it works until my engine is back in the car and we turn the key.

gibran911 · 01-08-2011, 08:49 AM

Hello,
As the engine comes apart, one of our main reasons for the this is to locate where the oil leaking into the exhaust is coming from. Our first thought was that when #1 cylinder hydro locked from the Fuel distributor problem loading up the cylinder with fuel, the rings cracked or came off. Or worse! we have not opened it up to that point to know, but the oil in the exhaust is not on the side of the motor that #1 cylinder is on. It is coming from the 4,5,6 side of the motor. we will have to get deeper into this motor before we know for sure. Any idea's? compression and leak down test were both done and leek down was 4-8% range, compression was only 95 - 115 range lowest to highest. when we checked the valves, they were all adjusted properly and we did not notice anything unusual.
The picture shows oil on the heat exchanger exterior, but this is from a leaking oil tube (tank to cooler) and should not have filled the heat exchanger/exhaust manifold with oil. Where is it coming from?

Thanks again,
Gibran

HarryD · 01-08-2011, 09:40 AM

I would venture a guess (and no more than that) the leak is from the gasket at the breather on the top of the engine.

gibran911 · 01-08-2011, 12:32 PM

Would this cause oil to be in the exhaust?
when we ran the engine before pulling it out, oil was shot out of the exhaust. It is still dripping from the exhaust manifold/header after disconnecting the muffler and the muffler also has oil in it.

HarryD · 01-08-2011, 01:16 PM

Sorry, I did not catch your note about the visible spilled oil.

Leaking oil get everywhere and sometimes is very hard to track down.

The oil in the exhaust could be from seeping past the rings as the car sits. The bottom of the cylinders are in the same plane as the oil in the engine case sump. With your compression/leakdown results, you may have a bit of wear which makes this condition worse.

FWIW, my car, on startup, after sitting a week, will blow smoke for a while.

Walt Fricke · 01-08-2011, 06:41 PM

Gib - are you saying raw oil was coming out the right side tailpipe? Or at least out of the single muffler outlet (which means you don't know which cylinder bank let it in)?

All our cars are like Harry's - they blow at least a small puff of smoke on startup now and then. Some or sometimes more than others. But that is just a bit of oil being combusted (Porsche once claimed - in the 959 owner's manual - this was water vapor, but I don't think anyone believes that.

In your case, given the car's history of just sitting around for so many years, I suppose raw oil could actually end up down in the exhaust piping, as at least one exhaust valve is always somewhat open. That doesn't mean your rings are shot. And oil, if high enough, can get past worn out exhaust valve stem seals, and down worn guides into the exhaust port.

I think your leakdowns are reasonable for the car's age, and the compression testing isn't a red flag either. Can we assume the leakage was all through the rings? Did you listen carefully?

Someone else will have to speak to how one removes residual oil to that level from the muffler. The header/collector part ought to clean itself up in fairly short order driving around.

gibran911 · 01-08-2011, 08:13 PM

Hi Walt,
Yes, oil (and gas - #1 injector problem) came out the single exhaust outlet of the muffler when we started the car.
Once we removed the muffler, the oil was only on the 4,5,6 cylinder side of the engine inside the header.

Interesting though that the car was about six quarts low on oil when I got it.
Do you think that much oil could simply have drained passed the rings and or valves/valve guides?

We were only guessing at first that the engine may have cracked or thrown a ring from a cylinder causing the oil out the tail pipe. This was after #1 injector flooded the #1 cylinder and caused a hydro lock.

We are planning on pulling the motor apart at this time to look into the condition of all the rings, cylinders and valve assemblies. Any thoughts on that being unnecessary?

Thanks for your input and look forward to further discussion on this,
Gibran

Walt Fricke · 01-09-2011, 08:55 PM

Were this my car and I was on a rather strict budget and wanted to drive it (not having a good substitute), I think I would clean it up and put it back in and start driving. Monitor the consumption of the new oil carefully, look at spark plugs periodically, maybe repeat the leakdown after a thousand or so miles. See how things are going. Stop if problems emerge, or it won't quit smoking when driving, and so on.

I don't think the engine leaked a gallon and a half of oil out into the right side exhaust headers! The sump of the 911 engine holds quite a lot, and the oil tank has to retain oil at least up to that level. Of course, if the car was parked on a slope with the right side down, that would exacerbate things. Still, a gallon and a half of oil is a lot to find on the garage floor, or blown out the exhaust.

On the other hand, if you are up for it and have time for sweat equity, you can pull the motor down, clean and inspect everything, get (most likely) new bearings, new rod bolts, buy a gasket kit, and put it back together with a gasket kit (or even a very reduced kit, depending on the status of various of the gaskets and seals, some of which can be reused), and not have too awful much money in the job if you do the work yourself.

The kicker is what you find and how the mission enlarges - while I am in here, etc. Are you going to re-ring it? Carefully measure the cylinders for ovality and taper, and the piston ring lands? What if you find they are out of spec? Are you going to have the rod big ends measured and perhaps resized? Rocker arms and rod small ends rebushed? At least this is a '73T, so it ought not to need head stud replacement. The case is still a magnesium one, though. Do you measure the main journal bores to see if parting line shaving and then line boring back to standard is needed? Pull the valves and regrind them and the seats?

gibran911 · 01-11-2011, 06:30 PM

At this point the plan is to look into the top end and asses whether or not to look further.
Will let you know what we discover.

gibran911 · 01-31-2011, 10:03 AM

Hello,

Well, I am at that point where I decide to put the engine back in and run it or tear into the top end and inspect it.

Some have stated that the oil in the exhaust may simply be a result of the car sitting so long without being run. while others speculate that a more serious issue may be present -rings, vale guides, etc.

Troublesome, would like to save time and money by re-installing the motor, but don't want to do any more damage if it needs attention.

Anyone have input?

Thanks again, Gibran

gibran911 · 01-31-2011, 04:20 PM

obligatory BUMP!

Walt Fricke · 01-31-2011, 06:26 PM

Well, you know what I would do.

Walt