Need advise on updates/upgraded on 85 DME car?

[Joeaksa]

Now that I am learning the hard way about updates that should have been done to my 85 model 911 DME car, what other updates should I be looking at doing next?

I was told that there is a fuel line in the engine compartment that sometimes bursts, possibly causing a fire. My old shop told me that this is a mandatory upgrade and that not doing it is asking for a fire. Cost was given to me as $900. These guys are also the ones who told me that its not necessary to hook the oxygen sensor in the system unless there is a cat on the car, so I tend to take what they say with a grain of salt.

Should I as well scrap all the sensors on the car, speed, reference, cylinder head and oxygen and replace them with new ones? The car has 84k on it and assume the orginal parts as everything I have changed out so far still has the "1984" date on it.

Any other recommendations from you guys? I am not into being stranded by the roadside, nor pushing the car out of traffic, so preventative maintenance is a high priority for me. Any inputs from you guys based on past experience would be greatly appreciated.

TIA,

Joe

[orbmedia]

Replacing every sensor seems like expensive overkill, and is not recommended especially because when you start going in there and wrenching on all those parts. you are probably increasing the failure percentage probability just by upsetting so many systems at once. Those sensors do not have a replacement interval, instead the lines and hoses should be inspected as part of a regular maintenance procedure. A spare DME relay seems to be a handy part to carry around.

[nhromyak]

The fuel line they are talking about is ~$500.00. Someone on here had the rear line leak, I don't know about bursting.

Carry a spare DME relay and a spare Fuel pump relay.

***post edit Sorry, I meant a spare DME relay. Not a spare DME computer. I guess I am not being very clear tonight. My apolgies to all.

[Joeaksa]

Nick,

Thanks. I carry a spare fuel pump relay AND DME computer at all times but now that I am finding several other things that will kill the motor dead, would like to make sure that these things are either in good shape or I have a spare.

I had heard about the updated cylinder head sensor but did not know that it would kill the motor or I would have replaced it.

Has anyone else had problems with the fuel line on a 3.2 motor? My feeling was that the garage was just trying to sell the part and labor. Any fuel line should be inspected and as those on my car are for the most part 18 years old, they are all suspect. I hear that this one line in question is a bear to replace as well, with the intake manifolds needing to be taken off to replace the part.

Thx,

Joe

[DANNOV]

Fire? I have a 1985 Carrera and this is the first I have heard about a fuel line break that can lead to a fire. Does anyone know about this? Is this an easy way to burn down my car and collect insurance? Just kidding! The new DME relay resulted in a surprising improvement. After my posting of a few months ago I think everyone bought a new one. I recommend a new DME relay, especially if the existing relay is really old.

[Joeaksa]

DANNOV,

I know of one person in the Dallas area who had a late 80's 911 and it caught fire. This is why I was asking about this particular hose. He pulled out of the parking lot and heard the motor stutter, thought nothing about it and kept driving. Got on the highway and soon afterwards someone pulled along side him waving to pull over. He did and stopped, thinking that something was wrong with a tire or such.

The fuel line had burst and finally sprayed enough fuel to cause it to hit either the exhaust or something electrical and it caught fire. Someone in the area had a small extinguisher and put the fire part way out then the fire dept arrived. He was lucky that someone had called "911" as they kept the car from burning completely.

The total bill on the repairs was in the area of $21,000 and his insurance company was not happy but paid the bill. The car was worth a bit more than this at this time.

If this is really a problem on the 3.2 DME motors, then I will bend over and spend the money, pull all my intake off and replace the line. If this is a fluke and happens on one or two cars out of all of them on the road, then I will carry a couple of extinguishers in the car and pray harder. $500 just for the parts is a bit steep unless its been shown to be a consistant problem. I would love to hear from other 3.2 owners and people who work on them for a living and see if this is really a problem.

Joe

[Clark Griswald]

Not a pro, but the first I've heard of this. And I've been paying attention.

Changing to the two wire temp head sensor is good preventive maintenance, as is carrying an extra DME relay.

Beyond that, the 3.2 doesn't have many common problems except for valve guide wear. And you wouldn't treat the valve guides on a preventative basis. Deal with them if and when they show problems.

[Joeaksa]

Clark,

Agreed. My car has 84k miles on it and is burning right at 1 liter of oil per 1000 miles so its not excessive. I am as well watching my oil consuption and things like the fuel line just in case. Just do not need a fire and to total out the car over this.

Would love to see the motor go 120-130k before a valve job and would be happy to replace the fuel line then, when all the sheet metal is off the motor.

My gut feeling is that the problem is the cyl head sensor, and since my oxy sensor was disconnected and fuel injection was in "limp home mode" that the head temp sensor only started to work when I had the oxy sensor reconnected. Time to replace both at this mileage.

Thx,

Joe

[Eric Coffey]

Another fire hazard in the front trunk area is the A/C condenser blower motor. It has a tendency to seize and short out. When I worked at P. Weir's, I personally saw 2 cars that fell victim to this problem. An easy fix (and cheap insurance) is just to put an in-line fuse on the circuit

[Joeaksa]

Eric,

Totally agree! I did the A/C fuse blower mod two years ago when I heard about another car burning up in the trunk. Cost me around $20 to put a factory harness with fuse inline and for me thats cheap insurance.

We need to share things like this on the forum to keep the cars up and running and not on fire or stuck besides the road.

Thanks,

Joe

[dickster]

joe - here in the uk i have had breakdown insurance for the last seven years (£125 a pop), and i guarantee with that you 'll NEVER BREAKDOWN!!!!!

i wanna breakdown just so as i can make use of the damn insurance.

you got the bently manual or similar? thats lists the service schedule and replacement intervals

richard

[ChrisBennet]

Fuel lines: I wouldn't go out and replace them just as a matter of course but yes I have seen a few cracked ones. You can buy the $400 part or have (I'm told) a hyraulic line place rebuild your's for much cheaper. BTW: This is the line that feeds the fuel rails on both sides.
Head temp sensor: If you have the old single wire kind, replace it. A bad head sensor will leave you stranded at the side of the raod. You'll probably be replacing it before you sell the car someday anyway - why not do it now?
Speed (RPM) and reference sensors: The wires on these get old and brittle (they get cooked by the exhaust manifold). With the car running, take a hose and spray under the car. From the under the drivers side in front of the rear tire, aim for a spot on top of the tranny where it mates to the engine. If the car changes idle you should take a look at the wires for these two sensors.

[Jim Smolka]

The high pressure fuel lines can be replaced for much less than $400.

First take the old hose off and run down to your local hydraulic shop that carries Aeroquip hoses and fittings. Have then use the end connectors from your old hose to braise on an AN male fitting on to each connector. Then have a flexible SS line made with AN female fittings on each end.

The nice thing is that future hose replacements will be much easier.

[89911]

We just dropped an engine out of an 87 and had a pretty good look at all the fuel lines and components. Does this $900 fee include dropping the engine?? There are no fuel lines in the engine bay longer then 1 foot. I would ask this mechanic specifically which line he is talking about. Some of the access to areas like the rear fuel pressure regulator is difficult, but not impossible.

[Joeaksa]

89911,

The fuel line I keep hearing about is on top of the motor, and runs under the intake areas. It hooks to the two fuel injector rails and appears to be about two feet long. It is clearly visible from the Pelican parts charts. From what I hear you do not have to drop the motor, but a lot of stuff needs to come off of the top to access the fuel line.

After what I have seen here, I will wait another two months until its warm enough to ride the bike consistantly and then take mine down to a hyd shop and have it overhauled with Aeroquip and end my worry.

Richard,

I had breakdown insurance when I lived in Europe and as well never used it! Glad to have it though! The Bently manual lists service intervals but does not address things like this fuel line that can break and toast the car.

Joe

[KTL]

The fuel line that everyone is talking about is as Chris Bennet described. It is the line that connects the two fuel rails and runs underneath the intake manifold. The line is a combination rubber/steel line like your cam oil feed lines and thus tends to fail like the cam lines. That is, at the rubber crimp joint. I believe I was quoted $316 for a replacement line. Like the others said, go to a hydraulic hose shop or any place that repairs heavy equip. (like forklifts) to get the fuel line refurbished.

I first read about the suspect line in the book "Used 911 Story" by Peter Zimmerman. Good book. Especially when you're 911 shopping for the first time

To get the line off, you have to remove the intake manifold. I think you have to at least drop the motor down a bit to be able to get the manifold off. I thought it was kind of a hassle to get the manifold off the motor with it sitting on a stand, out of the car. Some of the hex-bit nuts are tough to get to. I had to cut the bend off of a ball-end hex key to get at some of the nuts with a socket wrench.

[R22tech]

I currently have the fuel line failure you are talking about. I have it temporarily fixed with a worm gear clamp around the flared fitting where the rubber joins the metal just after the fuel filter. I have bought a new OEM replacement line for $3xx.xx. They are normally around $500.00. It will be a "bear" to replace- I will probably have it replaced by my mechanic at the next major service. My advice is to inspect it with your NOSE frequently. I found mine because when I would turn on the heat-the cabin would smell like gas! I can't see any cracks in the line and the car has 45k miles on it now, but nevertheless, it leaks fuel. Check this thread for more info on the infamous fuel line:

http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=53924&highlight=fuel+line


BTW: $900.00 is the same price I got quoted for this fuel line replacement. Since i will be supplying the fuel line now- the total should be about $600.00 parts and labor

[Joeaksa]

R22tech,

Your comments have me wondering if I should spend the time and couple of bux on two clamps now and then replace the entire hose when I am able to ground the car for a while. How hard was it to get to the place where yours was leaking?

All it would take is a hose that does not leak but comes apart all together and starts spraying fuel all over to crispy critter my nice Targa and for the price of a beer it might be worth putting some clamps on now!

Thx,

Joe