996 LS V8 Conversion

[not_hans_stuck]

Steve,

Will an ls1 fit in a Cayman?

H

[LvSteveH]

Originally Posted by not_hans_stuck

Steve,

Will an ls1 fit in a Cayman?

H

We took some test measurements last year and it looks promising. Cayman prices are still pretty high so there's probably not a lot of demand at the moment. Hopefully by the time we get around to doing one prices will come down.

[Joe Bob]

Porsche is consistent on the sporty car dimensions in the engine bay.

I DOUBT that the Cayenne motor would fit anything.....

I do know that the Boxster engine and/or trans won't fit a 914.

[Jeff Alton]

Originally Posted by LvSteveH

We took some test measurements last year and it looks promising. Cayman prices are still pretty high so there's probably not a lot of demand at the moment. Hopefully by the time we get around to doing one prices will come down.

I'd do it, if you need a donor.....

The wheels look nice by the way!

[Kazee]

any plans on fitting a LS motor to a tiptronic?

[stlrj]

Trolling e-bay this morning when I ran across this:



"Up for auction is a 1999 Porsche 996 that has had the original engine swapped with a 2000 LS1 aluminum V8. I bought the car from a California dismantler with the plan of swapping in an LS1 V8 and did so successfully. This was the worlds first running 996 with this engine conversion and there is only one other that I know of in Saudi Arabia. So, pretty unique!

All was well until I tried to smog the vehicle in California and was unsuccessful due to a technicality with exhaust configuration. Basically since the exhaust faces a different direction on the LS1 than it did orginally, it cannot be smogged in California. Crazy. Since I can't smog and legally drive the car on the road I have decided to sell."


Porsche : 911 - eBay (item 140530101221 end time Apr-07-11 13:47:15 PDT)

[stlrj]

Not to end the discussion here, but how could the California smog issue be resolved?

[sc_rufctr]

Originally Posted by Kazee

any plans on fitting a LS motor to a tiptronic?

the ultimate "daily"...

[Joe Bob]

Dropped by Renegade on Monday. I've known the crew for many years. Despite that they still let me in the door and greeted me nicely. The shop is just off the Vegas strip in an industrial area.

Got the $.05 tour. Got to see the mentioned vehicle, the Boxster that is next on the list and a gnarly Targa that has a big block in it.

Of course they fired it up to move inside the bay as it was close to 5PM. It has hydraulic cutout for the muff. Needles to say it went from a stock sounding 911 to a screaming banshee.

The 996 was up on the rack so I was able to eyeball the mods top to bottom. Very well done. The Renegade parts stand out by their fit and appearance. The power steering pump up front was fitted so that you could still pull the spare out. The front trunk was tiny.....996s aren't know for a lot of storage.

The rest of the shop was clean and well presented. The stock of parts was organized and you could find things very easily.

A small block powered 914 was on another lift. 17 inch Rota/Fuchs and the Renegade designed brake calipers. Four piston jobbers that are beautiful to look at, can fit under 15 inch wheels. I didn't ask the price but I would assume they well worth it.

Very proffessional looking and running operation. They just re-did the front office and it looks good too. The shop cat was the only lazy thing here.

[not_hans_stuck]

Originally Posted by stlrj

Not to end the discussion here, but how could the California smog issue be resolved?

I wouldn't think it would be much of a problem. Just use an LS3 EROD motor. Just use sport cat's.

[Joe Bob]

All equipment would have to be CARB certified AND run in the proper sequence. Even then it would be a crap shoot.

The way you would NOT have any surprises is to ask what they expect. In my experience, you can put 10 regulators in a room with the "book" and get ten different interpretations.

You get what CARB and the BAR want in writing, clarify any abiguities in writing and deal with the same technician from start to finish.

[ej911]

Originally Posted by Joe Bob

Dropped by Renegade on Monday. I've known the crew for many years. Despite that they still let me in the door and greeted me nicely. The shop is just off the Vegas strip in an industrial area.

Got the $.05 tour. Got to see the mentioned vehicle, the Boxster that is next on the list and a gnarly Targa that has a big block in it.

Of course they fired it up to move inside the bay as it was close to 5PM. It has hydraulic cutout for the muff. Needles to say it went from a stock sounding 911 to a screaming banshee.

The 996 was up on the rack so I was able to eyeball the mods top to bottom. Very well done. The Renegade parts stand out by their fit and appearance. The power steering pump up front was fitted so that you could still pull the spare out. The front trunk was tiny.....996s aren't know for a lot of storage.

The rest of the shop was clean and well presented. The stock of parts was organized and you could find things very easily.

A small block powered 914 was on another lift. 17 inch Rota/Fuchs and the Renegade designed brake calipers. Four piston jobbers that are beautiful to look at, can fit under 15 inch wheels. I didn't ask the price but I would assume they well worth it.

Very proffessional looking and running operation. They just re-did the front office and it looks good too. The shop cat was the only lazy thing here.

Did you see the Boxster running?

[Joe Bob]

No.....as they have just gotten it in the shop.

[Trackrash]

Quote:
Originally Posted by stlrj View Post
Not to end the discussion here, but how could the California smog issue be resolved?
I wouldn't think it would be much of a problem. Just use an LS3 EROD motor. Just use sport cat's.

"It has been calibrated to be emissions compliant in most configurations with an automatic transmission and the included catalytic converters and exhaust manifolds."
E-Rod LS3 Crate Engine - GM Performance Engines

EROD may be the ticket. If these conversions can get CARB approval in a Porsche, who knows.

EROD kits only cost about $8k right?

[LvSteveH]

Sorry for the little lapse, we've got six cars to prepare for the track next week and needless to say we're busy.

Thanks for the kind words Mike aka Joe Bob. There is no doubt that California emissions can be a challenge; even with totally stock cars like the rash of stock 3.2's that have had trouble passing lately.

That said, it is manageable if you approach it right. It would be nice if all the inspectors were on the same page, but that's seldom the case. The regulations are pretty straight forward in principal, but there is enough open to interpretation that it's important to be able to justify why you did or did not do something.

It's a complex subject, no doubt. Here's a basic late model emissions primer from Scott, the owner of Renegade. Because we're in the business of doing engine conversions and selling kits to do them we find ourselves working with the various "powers that be" quite often.



"Renegade has been quietly working with several players in the Emissions game in California. First of all, some (what I believe to be are) facts that many do not know. (All of this information has been obtained from credible sources including John Wallach, Program Manager for the California Air Resources Board, Dr. Jamie Meyer, GM Performance Parts Division, and Randy Gallager, GM Performance Product Development, just to name a few):

The “50 State Smog Legal” GM E-Rod V8 LS3 is legal as long as it's installed in a 1995 and earlier vehicle using an OBD1 or older stock emissions protocol.

In the near future, GM and the California Air Resources Board (CARB) will have made an agreement with the Bureau of Automotive Repair (BAR) to include Specialty Constructed Vehicles using this engine platform. (This will make the Kit-Car industry quite happy.)

GM and CARB have continued discussions regarding the OBD2 compliance in 1996 and newer production vehicles with a tentative goal for final arguments to begin late this year.

The main criteria that CARB considers when pondering the prospects of a conversion to a later model OBD2 car is the year and the mileage. The emissions equipment has a Federally accepted optimum operating life expectancy of about 8 years or 80k miles according to John Wallach of CARB. After either the 8 years or the 80k miles has been achieved, the vehicle may be considered for a conversion.

In the state of California, IT IS LEGAL to perform a conversion on a 1996 or later vehicle as long as the donor engine is from a “car” (not a truck) that is the same year OR newer than the donor chassis. Furthermore, all of the emissions devices that came on that year donor ENGINE must be installed and in good working condition on the donor chassis.

There are volumes of specifics that I will not get into, but essentially all the V8 Porsche conversions up to 1995 are now easily done using the E-Rod GM V8...AND all the 1996 and newer OBD2 conversions are best to use a 'pull-out' engine from the same year or newer car.

Regarding the direction of the engine in the engine compartment, John Wallach has said this is not a rule that he is aware of, but gave me the contact info of the contractor in charge of the BAR's College Level testing program for his input. I have placed a call and will follow up with the specifics.

Renegade's position on any of our LS series conversions is to install a cleaner, more efficient, more powerful, and cheaper engine to replace the tired Porsche power plant. Over the last year, we have been working closely with GM and CARB attempting to nudge this concept along. In a nut shell...it's working!!! "

[5speed]

Smog regulations in California are a pain, even for cars that are completely factory stock let alone modified cars. This is why I have stayed away from engine swaps even though I really want to try one. I had high hopes when the Erod package was announced and expected all the bugs to be worked by now. I don't know all the details of why the smog ref failed the engine swap because the exhaust faced the wrong direction, but why would the CARB program director have to refer you to an outside contractor in charge of College Level testing? Wouldn't the CARB tell the contractor what is smog legal or not? I don't think that an outside contractor should tell CARB what is allowable or not. Makes no sense to me, but neither do the smog regulations. Let us know what you find out about the exhaust routing. I am just waiting for all the confusion to get straighten out and hopefully someday I can do a swap and the smog ref will know about the Erod package and issue me a certificate without having to jump through hoops.

[Joe Bob]

CARB makes the rules, BAR does the enforcement but the testing and inspections tend to be contracted out. Nothing is easy when it comes to non standard vehicles.

[Wil Ferch]

Can someone school me on the various "LS" engine types being discussed here?....we can limit it to those available as new crate engines and that are small blocks , if it makes a difference.

I see reference to LS1 (350 hp) , LS3 ( 2008 Corvette ?), then someone says LS7 monster.....what are the different engines available to the home-builder?. Are all of these available new thru Chevy parts sources or are "some" only available used, thru OEM application/junkyards?

[ttweed]

Originally Posted by Wil Ferch

Can someone school me on the various "LS" engine types being discussed here?....we can limit it to those available as new crate engines and that are small blocks , if it makes a difference.

Here's a good place to start, Wil:
GM Performance Parts--Crate Engines

TT

[lin7310948]

i dont call my Mast motorsports modified LS7 a monster but it did dyno at 705 CHP. not ready for the street but coming along and i am using a 78 930 as a basis for the conversion. car already has substantial suspension, brake and body modifications and should weigh in around 2400 pounds.