Dealer odometer rollback input

[Plecostomus]

Hi guys. I'm looking at an sc car advertised with 52250k miles being sold by a dealer. I just got the carfax and it shows that the car was reported to have had 53000 miles in '99!! My next question to the dealer of course is did the car sit for 12 years??

Should I run from this car, attempt to somehow contact the previous owner, or continue with ppi and possible sale? Thanks if you can suggest anything.

Kurt

[redstrosekNic]

Sometimes people get lazy and forget to check actual mileage when changing the title. It is possible the people just rounded up the mileage when the title was changed over. Obviously, being lazy in this regard can create problems in selling, as you are demonstrating by being a concerned buyer. Perhaps the dealer made a mistake in the ad??

[Plecostomus]

Originally Posted by redstrosekNic

Sometimes people get lazy and forget to check actual mileage when changing the title. It is possible the people just rounded up the mileage when the title was changed over. Obviously, being lazy in this regard can create problems in selling, as you are demonstrating by being a concerned buyer. Perhaps the dealer made a mistake in the ad??

Hi Nic.. the photos show the odo reading. Thx for your info..

[Grady Clay]

Kurt,

Evaluate the car as it is today.

Does it fit what you want?
Does it pass a PPI to your satisfaction?
Is the price / condition acceptable?
Assuming it is 2X or even 3X mileage, is that acceptable?

Odometer rollback is a serious Federal crime.
Can you figure out who did it?
At least you can report it with documentation and save someone not as observant as you.
If you decide to buy, can you negotiate a lower price?

Best,
Grady

[johnsjmc]

I have a 993 with a carfax odometer warning. The mileage changed down between 2 reports. and then back up. It also came with service records convincing me the error was a misread odo during an oil change. The owner didn,t change and the dealer was servicing the car before and after for another 2 years.Mileage accumulated at an average over several years consistent with the condition of the car.. If you have no other records available you can only guess.
The odometers on these cars often break too. It,s possible the PO drove for years without it working and then got it fixed before selling it. Also note that SC before 1980 had a 85 mph speedo which has often been changed to the 160 mph later one also losing lots of miles in the process. Unless you are looking for a museum collector car with lot,s of documentation I wouldn,t pay a major premium for low mileage as many are wrong

[Ofishbein]

I'd treat it as a car with twice the mileage and base my price on that. If it's truly been sitting for 12 years, I'd look elsewhere. Too much potential for dry seals and other rot problems. These cars are happiest when they get driven.

Very low mileage cars are often priced at a premium and then you are stuck not being able to drive it for fear of diminishing the value. If it's strictly for display in a museum or an investment maybe I could see it, but I'd rather have one I can drive.

[bkreigsr]

The carfax on my 85 now carries a warning that the odometer has a false reading, simply because the PO checked a box on the back of the NJ title that stated that the miles had exceed the odometer capacity. I was too lazy to go back to the PO with a notarized affidavit stating he checked the box in error, or to have him get a new title from the state and redo the whole sale. - very frustrating.
As to your post, I would be very hesitant on buying a car from someone I even suspected of committing a crime. Bill K

[JasonF]

Grady gives good advice about weighing the pros & cons.

If this is your "forever" car, then base the price you're willing to pay on condition, PPI results, etc...

If you think you're likely to sell the car down the road, then put yourself in the shoes of a potential picky buyer: all bets are off when it comes to a potential odometer rollback and there are plenty of other cars out there with no red flags, however innocent the discrepancy may be. It's an SC (granted a great car!), but not a '73 RS.

[Plecostomus]

Originally Posted by Grady Clay

Kurt,

Evaluate the car as it is today.

Does it fit what you want?
Does it pass a PPI to your satisfaction?
Is the price / condition acceptable?
Assuming it is 2X or even 3X mileage, is that acceptable?

Odometer rollback is a serious Federal crime.
Can you figure out who did it?
At least you can report it with documentation and save someone not as observant as you.
If you decide to buy, can you negotiate a lower price?

Best,
Grady

Thank you, Grady. Excellent points. I am awaiting the dealers response to my question about this no elapsed mileage for 12 yrs issue. I also asked if I can contact the cars previous owner. Btw, would you recommend reporting this? If so, how do u do it? Thx again,

Kurt

[Plecostomus]

Originally Posted by Ofishbein

I'd treat it as a car with twice the mileage and base my price on that. If it's truly been sitting for 12 years, I'd look elsewhere. Too much potential for dry seals and other rot problems. These cars are happiest when they get driven.

Very low mileage cars are often priced at a premium and then you are stuck not being able to drive it for fear of diminishing the value. If it's strictly for display in a museum or an investment maybe I could see it, but I'd rather have one I can drive.

Thank you, Larry. I've decided not to buy the car unless the seller can convince me the car is legit (which I highly doubt). I may try to negotiate based on 2x the mileage, which is an excellent point. Thx again! K

[Plecostomus]

Originally Posted by bkreigsr

The carfax on my 85 now carries a warning that the odometer has a false reading, simply because the PO checked a box on the back of the NJ title that stated that the miles had exceed the odometer capacity. I was too lazy to go back to the PO with a notarized affidavit stating he checked the box in error, or to have him get a new title from the state and redo the whole sale. - very frustrating.
As to your post, I would be very hesitant on buying a car from someone I even suspected of committing a crime. Bill K

Points well taken, thanks Bill

K

[Plecostomus]

Originally Posted by JasonF

Grady gives good advice about weighing the pros & cons.

If this is your "forever" car, then base the price you're willing to pay on condition, PPI results, etc...

If you think you're likely to sell the car down the road, then put yourself in the shoes of a potential picky buyer: all bets are off when it comes to a potential odometer rollback and there are plenty of other cars out there with no red flags, however innocent the discrepancy may be. It's an SC (granted a great car!), but not a '73 RS.

Thank you, Jason

[Plecostomus]

Btw, is it possible to visually identify odometer tampering? Like "fresh" scratches on the housing or dirty fingerprints?

[twistoffat]

I agree with Grady. Judge the car on condition wear etc. Condition of leather seats etc can often tell more than an ODO.
On a 996 you could pull the fuse to the odo and it wouldn´t register the miles. There is always ways and means but its difficult to fake leatherwear or faded paint etc etc

[bkreigsr]

Originally Posted by Plecostomus

Btw, is it possible to visually identify odometer tampering? Like "fresh" scratches on the housing or dirty fingerprints?

nope, especially if it was merely a case of them sending a faulty unit for repair to someone like NHS, or Palo Alto. ...or they could have just swapped with another car. Bill K

[nesslar]

It's possible, but then then again, the whole unit may have been simply changed out/replaced. There "might" be a date stamp still visible on the body of the speedo, but that would only tell you if the thing was of the proper period/year (or not).
Maybe the odometer gear was broken for years and years, and then replaced. It would be obvious if a PO did that work, because it is impossible to do so by hand without gouging the bezel lip up a bit. Also, the "paint" seals at the screws would be chipped away. However, it might not be obvious if done by a pro outfit like North Hollywood? Even then I would expect that they would somehow document/stamp the speedo as "repaired" or something......
Still you would have to find a way to get it out of the dash (with permission?) to check it; easy removal by hand usually, pulling at the outer edges and turning a little 'til it pulls free. What you find might simply "surprise" the dealer and no intent to defraud could be proven perhaps; would help your negotiations, though. I wonder if he'd let you "in there".
Edit: Was writing while you posted, Bill. So NHS and or Palo Alto has the ability to make a "spotless" reapir job? Do you know if they somehow date the work/stamp it or something?

[bkreigsr]

The odometer on my 85 stopped working soon after I bought it last Sept and I sent it to NHS. There was no indication (other that it looking brand-new compared to the rest of the 150,000 mile gauges) that the unit had been repaired, but if I recall correctly, there was some warning-type official paperwork in the box that I ignored - I just wanted my speedo back in the hole. Bill K

[Two Rivers]

I had a customer with a BMW that had the speedo sensor unplugged. He told me to leave it that way. Car only showed 35,K.
It most likely had over 80,K.
The next time he came in I told him to get lost because he was a scam-mer.
It was an M3 so his thinking was to scam someone when he sold the car.
A*# wipe.

[Plecostomus]

Thanks Gents. I just got an email from the dealer, below. The car presents very nicely and has little wear in the seats. All stock. Really what I've been looking for..



Kurt,
We have a lot of problems with the state emissions stations putting the wrong mileage on the inspection reports.** It probably had 53k at the last inspection in 1999.* If you noticed, there were no more inspections after that time.* The owner died and the car set for a long time and we bought it from the widow.* We just spent about $2500 on it at the local P&A to get it in top mechanical shape.* We also just installed new tires.** It is an incredibly nice car.** I will be in the office Saturday from 10 until 4pm and I would love to show it to you. * I got the price wrong.* It is $23k.

[bkreigsr]

curious - what was the wrong price? higher-lower?