In A Quandary On Front Suspension Upgrades. Your Advice \ Guidance Appreciated.

[slow&rusty]

Hey Gang - Well my car has been sitting since September 2009 and have finally got around this past weekend to ripping out all the front suspension and brakes.

I am in a quandary as to what path to choose. I started leaning towards coilovering the front using the neat kit from Elephant Racing, but $2300+ adds up really quickly by the time you add new bushings, ball joints, tie rod ends etc.

I read a post that Jack Olson went back to torsion bars from coilovers and that quite a few folks recommended against it. So now my desire to coilover the front is much less and I love the way the car actually rides with the stock torsion bars.

So now I am thinking:
1) New bushings all the way round (specifically PolyBronze from Elephant and regular rubber bushings for the sway bar)
2) New Ball joints and Tie Rods
3) Tie Rub prevention kit

and that's it...

Also question:
1) How do you check the health of the strut inserts?

This car is strictly a fun street car, will never be tracked or DE'd.

Any advice or guidance is appreciated.
Thanks - Yasin

[RSTarga]

What year is your car? Is it primarily a street car?

[GH85Carrera]

Suspension upgrades or changes have infinite possibilities.

1st off you need to determine what direction you want to go. Do you want a daily driver, weekend warrior or dedicated track whore.

I autocross my car and do an occasional DE. But I drive the car on the street. I will be driving to Savannah GA this summer with my wife riding along. I sure do not want solid suspension bushings.

I ended up with new ball joints, turbo tie rods, Bilstien HD shocks and Elephant racing rubber OEM style rubber bushings. I really like my results with the refresh / rebuild.

[wildcat077]

Since your car will be a daily driver i would suggest ER hard rubber bushings all around and then you forget about them for another 20 years ...

Did my 89 with ER rubber all around and i'm happy with it !

Cheers !
Phil

[slow&rusty]

Thanks guys! My car is an '89.

And will only be a street car that is used for the occasional fun drive.

Cheers!
Yasin

[ivangene]

I am a "more cowbell" type of guy but if its just used on the street I think a fresh "stock" suspension would be quite nice....

I just upgraded mine and love it but I plan to do a bit more spirited driving than just public roads....

[moneymanager]

Forget coilovers and fancy bushings, a complete waste of money on the street. If you want to be a little stiffer, change the front and rear torsion bars for a slightly larger set. Nothing wrong with turbo tie rods, you may want to replace yours anyway, but will hardly affect the car at all.

[RWebb]

Forget coilovers BUT I disagree that ER polybronze bushings are a waste of money on the street.

- what testing have you done to form the basis for that assertion?

[moneymanager]

What's to test? Most of us don't do long sweepers at over 100 on the street.
If you're driving hard enough to benefit from polybronze bushings there you should lose your license.

[GH85Carrera]

I love the feel of my fresh rubber bushings. You will not be sorry with Elephant rubber OEM style bushings. For a street car you and your passengers will like it.

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by moneymanager

What's to test? Most of us don't do long sweepers at over 100 on the street.
If you're driving hard enough to benefit from polybronze bushings there you should lose your license.

I disagree completely.

This thread shows the testing I did, the methods and the results:

Yet Another Boring Rgruppe Car – Part II, Suspension

[wildcat077]

Yasin,

You will be more than happy with ER bushings all around ...
I had my first DE of the season Saturday after replacing the front arm bushings with ER's over the Winter,the spring plates were done last Summer and with 22 mm and 29mm torsion bars the car was a joy to drive ...
Now ... have to get me some of them ER adjustable sway bars ... lol
Oh well

Cheers !
Phil

[Flieger]

A-arm Bearings disassembled view 1 by Max_911_fahrer, on Flickr

Pelican Parts - Product Information: PEL-RSR-FRBSH

[slow&rusty]

Thanks again for the feedback...those RSR bushings made it to my list! Looking forward to installing them....!

Yasin

[Flieger]

I like them. I also have monoball bearings for the top strut mounts and the rear trailing arms. They really made the ride much smoother and the car much more stable. The car just soaks up mid-corner bumps without crashing over them as the old polyurethane ones did.

[Walt Fricke]

Well, what I noticed as my '77 progressed from a stock street car to a full caged race car (though still street licensed) was that I had completely destroyed the fine balance Porsche achieved when it designed its cars.

Turbo tie rods are basically a wear replacement item with no downside. Various OEM style replacement rubber or rubber-like bushings basically bring things back to new.

A factory short shift kit, and firming up the shift coupling (which was designed to be a bit slopppy for some now forgotten reason), do wonders for the shifting. Couple that with one of the kits which spring load the shifter into the 3/4 plane, and it is like a whole different deal - nothing to complain about.

All the rest I see as pretty much wasted money. Polybronze (or needle bearing) busings are an improvement in every way over the hard polyurethane bushings, but those have always been a track modification. I can't see that they will measureably improve overall ride quality (which involves comfort as an important component) over something which largely replicates stock.

Our completely stock '84 was always a joy to drive around. The '77 (now in SC trim) is something I can put up with. And, as my only streetable Porsche nowadays, is by definition fun. But I haven't driven it over 100 miles in one stretch in a long time.

[m110]

Originally Posted by Walt Fricke

A factory short shift kit, and firming up the shift coupling (which was designed to be a bit slopppy for some now forgotten reason), do wonders for the shifting. Couple that with one of the kits which spring load the shifter into the 3/4 plane, and it is like a whole different deal - nothing to complain about.

.

I think the OP has a G50, although a good point for any 915.

[slow&rusty]

Originally Posted by m110

I think the OP has a G50, although a good point for any 915.

Yes correct!

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by Walt Fricke

... Polybronze ... bushings are an improvement in every way over the hard polyurethane bushings, but those have always been a track modification. I can't see that they will measurably improve overall ride quality (which involves comfort as an important component) over something which largely replicates stock.

...

My testing shows that the polybronze bushings will improve the feel of your sports car, with little or no detriment to ride quality. I cited my thread above.

I didn't read the OP as being only interested in ride quality. If that was my only interest, I'd put on new rubber bushings, but....

if ride quality was my only interest I would not own an old 911.


No matter what - if the car is 20, 25 or more years old, then the original suspension bushings should be replaced.

[goat]

When I refreshed and upgraded my suspension I did Polybronze front and rear, and bigger torsion bars. In the end I feel like the whole setup moves more fluidly. But then again the old set up was 20 years old. I do like the zerk fittings for greasing.