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-   -   Engine knocking noise...need help identifying (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/606917-engine-knocking-noise-need-help-identifying.html)

j911brick 05-18-2011 07:29 PM

Its a bearing, but who knows which one: Rod, main or IMS. Doesn't matter because you need a new/rebuilt motor no matter how you look at it.

cstreit 05-19-2011 06:21 AM

Sorry Max but that's definitely a rod bearing...

Now comes the hard decision, repair or replace. If you repair it's a tough road to clean everything out well enough to get all the bearing bits out of the oil galleys, etc... Scrap or ultrasonically clean oil coolers, flush lines etc... I had to redo my race engine last year because despite fastidious cleaning there was still some debris...

whiz05403 05-19-2011 06:28 AM

That sucks Max, very sorry. Keep us posted.

maxhofer 05-19-2011 07:16 AM

Well my hopes of a failed tensioner or broken valve spring have been shattered...!!!

My first thought is to open the engine to see how much damage was done. According to that, see if a rebuild is feasable or to get a new/rebuilt engine will be best, both moneywise and timewise.

I'n not afraid of getting into a rebuild, but Chris's thoughts about the fastidious cleaning of the debris worries me a bit.

What are the most common causes a rod bearing failure?, other than the obvious of running the engine without oil!

Is it mainly fatigue?

Thanks to everyone for your help so far. Guess I'll keep needing it, this would be my first engine tear down. And in the meanwhile I guess I'll be driving my 944!!!

cstreit 05-19-2011 07:30 AM

Rod Bearing failure?

Low oil pressure and/or overrevving are the usual causes. Tired engines with worn out bearings start losing pressure and wearing faster, vicious circle.

maxhofer 05-19-2011 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cstreit (Post 6031904)
Rod Bearing failure?

Low oil pressure and/or overrevving are the usual causes. Tired engines with worn out bearings start losing pressure and wearing faster, vicious circle.

Thanks Chris, I guess my failure was a combination of overreving with a tired bearing.

The problem came up after some hard driving. Motor is about 90.000 miles now. I've had it since 60.000 miles and have no clue of what could have been done by previous owner/s.

j911brick 05-19-2011 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxhofer (Post 6031920)
Thanks Chris, I guess my failure was a combination of overreving with a tired bearing.

The problem came up after some hard driving. Motor is about 90.000 miles now. I've had it since 60.000 miles and have no clue of what could have been done by previous owner/s.

I can't say for sure, but I think I recall the 3.2 having an issue with failing rod bolts at one time. They use a smaller bolt than the 2.0-3.0 engines.

Don't worry about the cleaning issues. All problems can be solved. I have rebuilt several motors that were as bad as yours. In fact I'm doing a turbo motor right now that had a bearing failure. No matter what, you will have to clean the oil lines, cooler, and tank; and that is the hard part. So builders replace all those parts, but that's expensive.

ZOA NOM 05-21-2011 10:00 AM

FWIW, I replaced the P&C and rod for the #6 which failed during heavy acceleration following a tight turn which starved the engine of oil. Had the crank welded and resized to factory specs, and I've been racing that motor for three seasons since, without issue. You will likely find that one rod bearing has failed, but you will obviously want to replace them all and refresh the motor. It is actually a very fun project that will give you tons of confidence. Look to the engine rebuilding forum here for assistance.


edit: like cstreit said, it's definitely a rod bearing. That's what causes the deep knocking sound. I remember it well. :)

Flat6pac 05-21-2011 10:52 AM

Like I ve said, Putting the cam restrictors in, especially on a Carrera, I would rather loose the cam than the crank and all it can entail. I have seen too many 3.2 wiped on the 2 or 5 throw and it wasnt caused by rod bolts, but oil starvation...
Bruce

Targalid 05-21-2011 02:32 PM

Bruce, can you explain what you just said for the rest of us unwashed ignorant types? Cam restrictors? How does this affect oil starvation? What are cam restrictors?
Al

brads911sc 05-21-2011 03:02 PM

I feel your pain.

Youll love it even more after your done. trust me... Hang in there. Its actually fun and wont take too long. Good luck.

maxhofer 05-21-2011 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brads911sc (Post 6036541)
I feel your pain.

Youll love it even more after your done. trust me... Hang in there. Its actually fun and wont take too long. Good luck.

After recovering from the first moments of depression when i found all that metal in the oil I'm getting ready to disassemble the engine.

I have been getting info from the engine rebuilding forum and ordered Wayne's engine rebuild book.

I'm really looking forward to the learning process involved. And more important, enjoying a fresh rebuilt engine!!!

Targalid 05-21-2011 06:47 PM

Found a discussion on oiling and cam restrictors: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/608132-cam-tower-oil-line-restrictors-redux.html

ZOA NOM 05-21-2011 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Targalid (Post 6036508)
Bruce, can you explain what you just said for the rest of us unwashed ignorant types? Cam restrictors? How does this affect oil starvation? What are cam restrictors?
Al

What he said is he would rather install the cam line restrictors that restrict oil flow to the cam housings in order to retain higher pressure in the case, thereby protecting the crankshaft and rods more effectively. There is sufficient remaining flow for the cams, so the restrictors are worthwhile. They are simply fittings that are installed at the rear of the motor on the cam housings where the oil lines enter. The factory fitting has a larger hole in it.

hcoles 05-22-2011 05:30 AM

It should be mentioned that there is not 100% agreement that changing to the restricted fittings is advisable. I had stock, rebuilt engine with restrictors, now back to stock fittings. I remember some past threads containing more on this. I think the Wayne book recommends the restricted fittings. With the stock fittings the oil pressure is noticeably lower as seen on the dash. I noticed some issues with what appears to be rocker pad wear (after posting and getting many good comments, not sure what I saw is 100% lube related) and changed back thinking it would help.

Targalid 05-22-2011 07:35 AM

Thanks for the explanation. I see Pelican sells a kit for both sides with replacement oil lines and washers for $32.


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