1978 911SC Shift linkage question

[masterdave]

So i finally found a 1978 911SC in my price range and bought it this weekend. It has only 2 minor issues. The stick has a lot of wobble in it, the previous owner had the tranmition rebuilt and it works great. Except the stick does not like to go to 2nd. After some research on these forums I think it is the shift linage bushings. Im going to replace them. Which leads my to my first question, there are some great tutorials here on how to do it, does any one have one with pictures? And or does any one have one that uses drivers side and passengers side as apposed to right and left? I can never figure out which way they are looking at things.

I am also going to put on the short shift kit. I have decided to go with the factory kit, as i have heard that the other kits can put improper wear on the trans. My question is can i use that along with the spring balance mount that keeps the stick centered in 3rd and 4th, and has spring feed back on 1st and 2nd, and can i get that mount with out the stick in it/does it even come with a stick or is it just the mount?

what oil should i use(weight). I will most likely go for mobil1 in what ever weight is most suggested here. I heard thats what they ship the cars with so i will keep it that way.

the second issue is the E-Brake, it is super lose and basically does not work, how do i tighten the cable/ can I?

AND WHAT DOES THAT LITTLE LEVER TO THE RIGHT OF THE E BRAKE DO????????

Thanks for every thing

[James Brown]

If the car does not like to go into 2nd (like most older 915 type transmission cars) it most likely need to be rebuilt. Even if it has been, it should be looked at. The short shift kit will make it even harder to get into gear. Replacing the shifter and the shift coupler and all the bushings will cure the feel of the shifter but it still will not fix the hard shifting. The oil choice is a heated debate. Your best choice is: Brad Penn 20W50, Swepco, Valvoline. All normal (dino) oils. See the post on oils, that should keep you busy for a few weeks! E brake can be adjusted and should. The levers next to the E brake is the heat (temp) control from the engine to the cab. The other lever is a old throttle control lever. Oh and welcome, there are tons of info in here, with pictures, that will show you how to do just about everything on your car you want to do. Just use the search function. More people will help out.

[911pcars]

Worn shift linkage bushings can indeed prevent shifting into gear. Before signing on the dotted line for a rebuilt gearbox, continue with your diagnosis by removing the rear tunnel plate, then observe the shift tube while moving the shift lever. There should be minimal loss of motion.

For example, this shift tube bushing broke in half due to wear and the driver was unable to shift into 1st or 2nd. Ask me how I know. Of the three bushing areas, each one, if worn, will create shifting issues.



The factory short shift kit, while providing slightly shorter throws also provides slightly less leverage to do so. However, it doesn't materially increase the shifting effort. I find it's well within the range of acceptable. Of course, YMMV.

Sherwood

[rusnak]

Even just a loose cone setscrew can prevent proper shifting. The factory short shifter also replaces many wear items in the shifter, but it's still not the best shifter choice imo.

[911pcars]

Originally Posted by rusnak

Even just a loose cone setscrew can prevent proper shifting. The factory short shifter also replaces many wear items in the shifter, but it's still not the best shifter choice imo.

A factory short shift kit often contains the nylon shift lever bushing. The other parts are mechanical components with typically long service life. The other shift linkage bushings (shift tube and shift coupler) are not contained in a short shift kit but are sourced individually.

If I had a choice of short shifters, I would opt for the one attached to a GT2RS.

Sherwood

[CCM911]

I had trouble getting second, and a rebush/adjustment cured it. I vote NO for the short-shift kit as well.

Spend the $25 and a few hours to install, and you may be pleasantly surprised.

[trak ratt]

Agree on replacing the bushes. I got the factory short shift kit (stock '86 shifter) and really like it on my SC track car. Wife says much better than original one too. Guess it's just different strokes...

[masterdave]

So after staying up till about 3am last night (gotta love college) trolling blogs, this is what i have decided to do.

First, i saw some flex at the knuckle and found some threads last night with similar pictures. Their shift rods were broken. Unfortunately im at school and wont be back to the car for another 2 weeks almost to check. But im trying to get all the info i can so when i get home i can get right to work.

Since the rod may be bade i have decided to scrap the short **** for now. Mostly for cost reasons, and i would like to get it working before i go and upgrade anything. How ever if i get every thing in order I will defiantly consider installing one. As well as a shifter gate. 911pcars, if im not mistaken that is a gate in the picture, correct? how do you like it?

I will be doing a bushing replacement and alignment when i get home. that will with out a doubt be my first order of business. if i find that the shift rod is bad i will replace it while im in there.

That leads me to ask, is there any way to get the shift rod out with out dropping the trans, i also read last night that it can be taken out of the E-brake hole, is this true, or is there another way. I would like to avoid doping the trans, if possible.

I will post pics of every thing as soon as i get home.

911pcars that is a great pic, you would not happen to have any others of the shifter assembly, i always strive to find good reference images.

[911pcars]

Originally Posted by masterdave

So after staying up till about 3am last night (gotta love college) trolling blogs, this is what i have decided to do.

First, i saw some flex at the knuckle and found some threads last night with similar pictures. Their shift rods were broken. Unfortunately im at school and wont be back to the car for another 2 weeks almost to check. But im trying to get all the info i can so when i get home i can get right to work.

Since the rod may be bade i have decided to scrap the short **** for now. Mostly for cost reasons, and i would like to get it working before i go and upgrade anything. How ever if i get every thing in order I will defiantly consider installing one. As well as a shifter gate. 911pcars, if im not mistaken that is a gate in the picture, correct? how do you like it?

I will be doing a bushing replacement and alignment when i get home. that will with out a doubt be my first order of business. if i find that the shift rod is bad i will replace it while im in there.

That leads me to ask, is there any way to get the shift rod out with out dropping the trans, i also read last night that it can be taken out of the E-brake hole, is this true, or is there another way. I would like to avoid doping the trans, if possible.

I will post pics of every thing as soon as i get home.

911pcars that is a great pic, you would not happen to have any others of the shifter assembly, i always strive to find good reference images.

Yes. A broken shift tube (got that righ?) will make shifting a little more difficult. You sure that's the reason?

That photo I posted is a subtle plug of our Gate Shift kit. Good thing we don't manufacture the broken piece shown. We have more images of the factory shifter and components on our website.

Hope this helps,
Sherwood
Seine Systems > Welcome

[Scott R]

I had a broken shift rod and the gear engagement issue was not constant. Since the rod separates from the end piece it works one min, and then not the next as it tries to grab on to the old epoxy. with it rotating you lose all of the gears on the side planes as it rolls around. One second you have 1-2 the next they are in the 5-R position.

The good news is that it's an easy repair. Jack up the engine and pull the rod out the back, weld it and put it back in.

[Busta Rib]

I bought my SC with the factory shortshifter installed. I did not like the feel of it at all. It was vague with no natural 3-4 plane. I think you are going about it the right way: tighten up the connection with new bushes first and see how that feels. It is a cheap fix. If it still feels wonky, consider getting the Seine shift gate. I understand it keeps the lever in the 3-4 plane by default and is sprung with tension on the 1-2 and 5th-gear planes.

It sounds like you are in school and probably don't want to spend $$, but if you have the cash, I would recommend a Wevo or Rennshift shifter. They are 100% replacements for the entire shift mechanism (no need to reuse factory shifter parts) and offer the same 3-4 plane default setting and lateral tension for the other gears. I purchased the Rennshifter kit that came with a new coupler as well and the entire system is adjustable. It was a night and day difference in shifting. I also went for the extra long lever and the movement from steering wheel to shift knob is perfect, IMO. No more reaching.

[masterdave]

@Scott R
That sounds similar to my issue, i can get 2nd to engage if i try, and when it does the gear is fine. Which is what led me to believe there was no issue with the trans its self and all the play in the shifter its self is what led me to think there was a problem there.

@911pcars
im not 100% sure thats the reason, but thinking back some thing seemed loose like that. being as it was the first day i had the car i assumed that it was just a universal joint. I am a computer engineer and work on my school (Lehigh University) formula SAE car electrical systems, we have a few universal joints that work kinda like that. Hence the mis-assumption. I am itching to get home and check it out, ill post pics as soon as i can get them, but unfortunately i will not be heading back for another 2 weeks almost. I had looked at the seine shifter gate actually. I wont make a decision on that until after i get every thing in order but it will be one of my first orders of business once every thing works

do the universal joints that connect the shift rod to the trans, ever have problems, it could be coming from there as well?


Lehigh Formula SAE

Thanks for all the help guys
Dave

[masterdave]

did any one catch

"Since the rod may be bade i have decided to scrap the short **** for now."

I spelled shift wrong and they took it out lol my bad

[911pcars]

Originally Posted by Busta Rib

I bought my SC with the factory shortshifter installed. I did not like the feel of it at all. It was vague with no natural 3-4 plane. I think you are going about it the right way: tighten up the connection with new bushes first and see how that feels. It is a cheap fix. If it still feels wonky, consider getting the Seine shift gate. I understand it keeps the lever in the 3-4 plane by default and is sprung with tension on the 1-2 and 5th-gear planes.

It sounds like you are in school and probably don't want to spend $$, but if you have the cash, I would recommend a Wevo or Rennshift shifter. They are 100% replacements for the entire shift mechanism (no need to reuse factory shifter parts) and offer the same 3-4 plane default setting and lateral tension for the other gears. I purchased the Rennshifter kit that came with a new coupler as well and the entire system is adjustable. It was a night and day difference in shifting. I also went for the extra long lever and the movement from steering wheel to shift knob is perfect, IMO. No more reaching.

You might have felt differently about the factory SS had you started instead with the standard factory shifter.

Sherwood

[Grady Clay]

Dave,
Welcome to Pelican
As you have already learned, you will find a lot of help here.

I agree, leave the short-shift for later (if ever) and get the shift linkage correct with new Factory parts.

With a ‘rebuilt’ transmission, a new synchronizing ring in 2nd gear can be difficult to overcome compared to 3,4,5 gears.
This can be aggravated with not replacing a worn sliding sleeve.
Even when new, the shift into 2nd is more difficult because the synchronizer is very large (compared to 3,4,5).


The emergency (parking, E-brake) brakes can have three places needing attention:
Something can be amiss with the handle and the ‘balance-bar’ just inside the tunnel and the cables attached there.
The adjustment at the trailing arm may be incorrect or the plastic guides are broken.
There may be something amiss with the brake shoes, pivots or adjustors inside the parking brake (inside the rear rotor).

Start with the simple adjustment at the rear trailing arms.


The two (red knob) levers to the right of the parking brake handle are the heaters.
I recommend you get a ‘Driver’s Manual’ for your car.
It is invaluable for all the little details.


I’ll leave the oil discussion to others on your other thread.


Keep your eyes open for a Factory Workshop Manual.
There are Vol. I & II for most basic operations and pre-1972 cars.
There are Vol. III through Vol. VI as supplements for 911s from 1972 through 1983.
Try and get a manual that has had ALL the supplements.
These are expensive but worth the investment if you are going to do your own tinkering.
The little 'Spec Book' is also worth finding (Part # WKD 422 720 for '78-'81).
Porsche sells ($11?) the PET parts manual CD for all Porsches.


What year at Lehigh? (From a Carnegie grad.)
Good luck on your FSAE effort.

Which one of this ‘motley crew’ are you?



Now we need to work on spellin and graner…. No ****!
(I type everything into MS Word with my custom Porsche Dictionary.)

Congratulations on your Porsche (I had to wait until I graduated. I still have the ’68 911 I special ordered new from Porsche KG.)

Best,
Grady

[masterdave]

Grady, thanks for all the great info,

First off ironically i am not in that picture we meat early Saturday morning and the day that pic was taken i was up all night the night before writing a java compiler. I will be graduating in 2013.

Thanks For every thing
Dave

[911freek]

I had to replace the short shifter, and since I lost faith in the whole assembly I bought the whole passenger-compartment parts (shifter knob to X coupler inclusive rod and all) and replaced it myself. You do not need to drop the transmission at all - just fenagle a little when pulling the rod out.

2nd is a known 915 problem. Try not to drag 1st too high shifting up, and get used to stopping still at 3rd :-)

Good luck,

[masterdave]

So I finally got home from college and was able to get back to work on the car. After a good deal of disassembley i was able to get the shift rod out of the E-Brake hole. it was tricky and took a great deal of swearing but its out. Turns out that the shift rod was cracked in the front where it joins the other piece and thus has to be replaced. The rear bushings we also non existent. I found them deep in the car below the coupler. So i will be replacing the bearings and shift rod and while in there adjusting the ebrake and cleaning out the car.

Does any one have a pic of the rear part of the shift rod and how it meats the trans. because the bushings were not on im not quite sure where they go and i could use some reference for installing the new ones.

Thanks for every thing
dave

[rusnak]

I hate the social networking @ thing.

It's annoying.

[Scott R]

Originally Posted by masterdave

So I finally got home from college and was able to get back to work on the car. After a good deal of disassembley i was able to get the shift rod out of the E-Brake hole. it was tricky and took a great deal of swearing but its out. Turns out that the shift rod was cracked in the front where it joins the other piece and thus has to be replaced. The rear bushings we also non existent. I found them deep in the car below the coupler. So i will be replacing the bearings and shift rod and while in there adjusting the ebrake and cleaning out the car.

Does any one have a pic of the rear part of the shift rod and how it meats the trans. because the bushings were not on im not quite sure where they go and i could use some reference for installing the new ones.

Thanks for every thing
dave

It doesn't have to be replaced, just have it welded. It's a five min job for a welder. I am shocked that you got the shift tube out of the e-brake hole, I didn't think that was possible.