early 911's and extremely hot weather - foolish notion?

[shirt]

Hi all,

First up I should introduce myself. Name's Phil, an english car nut currently residing in Dubai, UAE. Home of cheap gas, perfect roads, and a hell of a lot of sun! Currently 42degC and it's not even summer yet.

Since I got here, I keep seeing amazingly cheap cars on sale. However, it's the rare ones that catch my eye, such as the 964 3.6 turbo that one of my colleagues uses as his daily driver. I'm more a classic fan than I am with modern metal too, and people here keep telling me to buy the kind of car I've always wanted.

That's brought me to start scouring the forums and sale boards for pre-73 911's and 912's. I can get either a mint 912 for the budget I have in mind, or a strong driver or non original 911, and I'd much prefer the 6 pot.

However, I am also mindful of the fact that, whilst I'd be doing a max. of 8000miles a year and we have a bunch of good autoshops out here [inc. specialist porsche and racing porsche garages], a 40yr old car may well not appreciate being driven around in this kind of heat. Most of the time, it's mid 20s-low 30s [degC, not sure what fahrenheit sorry] but in summer it gets up the the mid-hihg 40s.

I am aware I can fit aftermarket A/C to keep myself cool, but what sort of trouble would I be letting myself in for by using an early Porsche in that kind of weather? Are there any upgrades I can look into for the cooling system?

The car I'm interested in at present is a 1970 911 with a later 3.0sc engine, SC brakes, and upgraded suspension. I can post the link if anyone cares to look it over?


Anyway, it's good to finally register after seeing so many nice cars on here in the past - projects and for sale. I remember salivating over Chris Nielsen's build threads in the past and I'm sure I'll do the same over many more now I'm a member.


Cheers for now

Phil / Shirt

[Peter Zimmermann]

I live in Bakersfield, CA, and the summer temps here range between 98F and 108F daily for about four-five months. We put our SC away around the end of May and take it back out in early October. I made a valiant effort to get the A/C to be effective above 92F, but once the actual cost approached $4k I gave up and removed the compressor and platform, along with the condenser under the engine lid. We love the car during the fall, winter and spring.

[twin plugged targa]

I live in S France (nr Nice) and figure I have about 1 month more of using my cars until it gets too warm for them - engine temps, tourist traffic gridlock and lack of A/C.
I will not use them for the main heat of the summer (+30degrees C) from late June, July and August, when my modern Audi A4 will keep cool and keep me cool!
- You can still extra oil coolers and fans and belly condensers for A/C with booster cabin fans, but you are really always fighting the elements!
These cars do love the cooler air temps

[Grady Clay]

Phil,
First, welcome to Pelican
You will find a lot of help here.


The ’70 would be a good base to build from, IF it is a good car to begin with – no rust, no previous crash repair and in generally good condition.

The 3.0SC in the car MUST have a front oil cooler.
What kind and size oil cooler?

What year engine? The ’78-’79 have smaller engine fans but that can be updated.
Is the transmission original type 911 or has it been updated to the 915 (same as SC)?

What color is the car? Anything other than while is probably unacceptable.
Coupe or Targa?

Is this going to be your only car?
Will it be parked inside or in the sun?

How much ‘effort’ (and expense) are you willing to endure?


Yes, you can ‘build’ a 1970 911 to be fast, reliable and comfortable – even at 42C (107F) today and perhaps as much as 50C (122F) in the summer – but it will be a challenge.

The areas to address are:
Huge cooling capacity for the engine, A/C, transmission, fuel and you.
Dramatically improved insulation and sealing.
Ability to safely re-start after driving and ‘heat soak’.

I suspect the ‘devil is in the details’ but it can be done.



Again, WELCOME
Link to the car please.

Best,
Grady

PS: I have had my ’68 911 at 114F and 120 mph for hours on end across the CA, NV and UT high deserts with no problem driving (230F oil).
The difficulty was re-starting after fueling. It takes lots of 'tricks'.
G.

[bart1]

Not Phil from C&P, are you?

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by Grady Clay

Will it be parked inside or in the sun?

+1

Living in northern Ohio I had no idea of the impact the sun baking the interior can have on the ACs function. Visited family in Charlotte during a heat wave (105F) and the AC did not cool it down at all. It was more comfortable removing the targa top and gutting it out with the breeze.

Living in Houston I had garage parking at home and work. Marginally ok to-and-from. Go to a lunch and park it outside and I had to strip down to a t-shirt to not soak my work shirt with sweat.

[Barrpete]

Tucson, Arizona summers can be as hot as 115F (46C) or more, although 105 - 110 (40-43C) is probably more typical. Maybe not quite as hot as Dubai, but still pretty hot.

The first thing I would suggest at a minimum is install a front fender Carrera cooler with a fan to keep the engine temps in the normal range. Before I added the fan to mine I couldn't run the AC while sitting in traffic without the temps creeping up. Since then I've had no problems.

I've also upgraded my AC to work pretty well even on the hottest days in stop and go traffic. Nowhere near what a modern car is capable of, but good enough that I'm not sticking to the seat. DIY costs were around $1500 or so a few years back. Carreras also have better air flow so an older car may require some additional work and $$$.

[RSTarga]

Front oil cooler + fender cooler + griffiths a/c kit... good to go. Make sure and use a very good 15-50W synthetic oil.

[RSTarga]

On second thought buy a 964 or later as you'll spend a good 10K to do the above properly.

[wolf]

Each year I take the 3.2 to the south of France in middle summer, no issues so far, though traffic jams get me a bit nervous.

[billjam]

Hi Phil,

I lived in Abu Dhabi all through the 90's and had an '84 3.2 Carrera as a daily driver all year round for most of that time. For several years I commuted daily between Abu Dhabi and Al Qoz (Dubai) in this car (about 130km each way). Fortunately, that was in the days before speed cameras on Shk Zayed Road and it never took more than an hour door to door unless it was foggy. V boring drive though, except for the occasional roundabout or speed humps!

I never had any heat-related engine problems - it was a 3.2 with the usual front fender oil cooler and transmission cooler - but living with the crappy airconditioning was the real challenge. I knew every shady parking spot in Abu Dhabi!
I can't help as far as the 3.0 models are concerned, so do take heed of advice from others above. All I can add is that the 3.2 didn't really have any hot weather issues other than the piss-poor A/C.

I'm surprised that there are any early model 911s for sale over there. I'd be real careful about buying this type of car in the UAE unless you can really verify its background.

As far as servicing and maintenance is concerned, I was never impressed with the local Porsche dealer in Abu Dhabi, so I always did everything myself. Their prices for servicing were just ridiculous, they never had parts in stock, and the mechanics were all schooled on current models and knew jack shiit about older models.
I pretty much rebuilt that whole car during the time I owned it but I never bought one part in the UAE - everything came from a parts supplier in Miami at less than half the price the local dealer quoted, and usually on my doorstep within two or three of days, not the two weeks delivery quoted by dealer.

Now, of course, I don't shop in Miami - I'm a thoroughly converted Pelican

Good luck whichever way you go. Here's something to encourage you ...

[euro911sc]

I run my 3.0 at the track here in south FL year round. I have the bras row turbo cooler in the front fender. No temp. problems. I drive it to the track and get stuck in freeway traffic at times... no problem there either.

I don't have AC... it can get warm in the cabin of the coupe, but as long as you are moving it isn't a problem.

-Michael

[shirt]

hello again guys, thanks for the welcome and advice thus far.

to begin with, this is the car:
Porsche : 911 | eBay

the work needed alluded to in the ad is mainly interior. the seats need a recover, the trim on one door post is holed and the visors are in poor shape. i'm awaiting pics of the sills, under carpet areas, trunk etc. seller is agreeable to my having an independent check it out on my behalf.

the seller also added this via email:

"So back to the car, yes the tlc is all fairly minor and not neccessary to enjoy the car at all. As stated in the ad the body is extremely clean, I do have the receipts from the respray. All panels are immaculate and straight and panel fits are very tight everywhere. I have had 2 people come and see the car and both commented on it being cleaner in person than the photos. As far as the engine replacement and other upgrades I have nothing on that. So the mileage on the car of 135k has nothing to do with the true engine mileage. I would be more than happy to facilitate an inspection done to provide you with a comfort level for the car. The first 20 years of the car appears to be very well documented, original records of sale and servcie records and recipts through 50k miles - it is after that the records thin out, although I do have everything from the previous owner and what I have done. As far as additional work that might be needed, I had a few boots, seals, etc replaced and there are a couple more than will need doing at some point - tie rod boots, etc, but that's about it. The transmission was rebuilt recently so that is good, no leaks at all. Clutch is a little stiff, normal for these cars and gear change is excellent. The only small leak is coming from the crank pulley casing. The engine starts very quickly and strongly and sits at about 900 revs. Oil pressure at idle is obviously low with this type of engine but hits 90psi when the car is being driven. There is a small amount of smoke when the engine is started after the car has sat for a while, but that doesn't last long. There are a couple of minor creaks from the suspension when going over sleeping policemen, etc. As mentioned in the ad the clock and there is stereo"

no aircon installed but the routing holes are there. front SC cooler installed but doesn't sound like there is a fan with this.

can anyone advise as to the parts cost for a decent a/c kit and for a fan driven oil cooler. what other mods and work are required? getting the car roadworthy for these conditions would be my priority, interior trim can be tackled on a rolling basis.

to answer the other questions:

no, i'm not phil from crank & piston. i am aware of him though as he runs a tasty fleet out here [993rs, 964rs and a 912]. a guy at work has a 964 3.6turbo, and someone on a local forum has the first ['74] 911 imported into the UAE. the fact these cars exist makes me think i'm not asking the impossible.

the car will be parked at home in an undergorund carpark. at work it will be outside but under a shaded canopy. i should think i'll need to buy a cheap old toyota or somesuch as a second car.

on one hand i think i should be sensible, research early cars in more detail and buy over winter so i have a few months to prepare for the summer heat. on the other i think this car is just gorgeous, which is not so easy to forget....

any advice, however how frank and harsh, is most welcome. i'd particularly like to know what other questions i should be asking.

cheers all and goodnight from me [4:29am - just got in from a heavy night on the beers and spellchecking is causing muchos grief!]

[shirt]

PS - bill - this could almost be your old car

Dubizzle.com | porsche for sale

i'm told the OEM porsche dealer is pretty poor [only one in the emirate] but there are good expat-run independents who are used to the dealing with requests to looking after unusual cars.

main issue will be parts, but i would look to build up a stock of consumables and known weak parts.