Carrera Sway Bar Upgrade for SC

[avr924]

Has anyone done this, and was the difference noticeable? My car is in very good original condition, dont want to weld or cut on it but will continue to do the occasional DE in the future until our track car is ready to go. Is it as simple as removing one sway bar and replacing with the larger Carrera ones? Am I missing something? Thanks for the input!

Alex

[Joe Bob]

I upgraded my 83 to the 915 trans, Carrera sway bars and torsions back when they were real cheap.

The biggest issue is corner balancing and alignment afterward. You have to pay the price.

The guy that did mine "forgot" to return my parts. Subject of another thread.

A good up grade overall.

[Cdnone1]

Simple and easy to do. No welding is needed. That alone should not change your class in DE.
Take some weight out of the car, have it corner balanced, lowered and as much negative camber as you can get on it at the same time and you will REALLY notice a difference
Steve

[avr924]

Thanks guys, considering putting some mild torsion bars and polybronze bushings all around, should pair well with Carrera sway bars and perhaps lower to Euro spec, although this car wont see as much track when our 76 is done. Already planning on align and cb, so thats not an issue. Too many projects isnt a bad thing! Joe Bob, we should have a graphics order in the not too distant future for ya!

[arbita1]

I put the Carrera sway bars on mine...but I did it in conjuction with a bunch of other suspension upgrades at the same time. I think most people suggest doing sway bars last.

I put 22/29 torsion bars, bilstein shocks (valved by smart racing), and the Carrera sway bars. Then aligned, corner balanced, and lowered to slightly lower than Euro height.

[gtc]

If you take the rear suspension apart, consider reinforcing the rear sway bar mounts or replacing them with a set of the Wevo RARBs. The factory mounts suck.

I have the late Carrera sway bars in my '84, and they were a nice but small improvement. If I were to upsize my torsion bars, I would definitely go to a larger, aftermarket swaybar.
I think that putting in huge torsion bars without a similar change in sway bar rates is a poor strategy. No offense, Matt.

[DRACO A5OG]

I've got 85 front and rear sway bars for sale, PM me.

[Staylo]

Keep in mind that not all carrera sways are the same. It's the G50 years that are the larger and more desirable ones for upgrade.

[gtc]

Originally Posted by Staylo

Keep in mind that not all carrera sways are the same. It's the G50 years that are the larger and more desirable ones for upgrade.

'86 also had the larger 22/21mm bars. '84's and '85's should have come with the 20/18mm bars.

The '87-'89 bars have a bend in the middle to clear the G50, while the '86 bars are straight. They should both fit on a 915 car. (I have the later bar on my car, but it is a tight fit near the transmission crossmember, so YMMV)

[KTL]

I gave a '87 Carrera rear sway bar to a friend to put on his '79 SC with his std. original torsion bars and I noticed he could get the car to come around corner exits a bit better. Not necessarily excessive oversteer, but the car seemed to understeer less on corner exit. I think it's a nice swap on a SC. Definitely makes a difference.

I'd disagree on the large main torsion bar usage w/out upgrading sways. Using larger torsions help the car corner a bit flatter in slower areas and does take some of the burden away from the sways. That being said, larger torsions still don't eliminate all of the body roll. I put 22/29 torsions on my '87 and it still had a bunch of roll.

Tracking 86 or newer Carrera w stock susp?

Not until I got to 23/31 could I see some of the roll being better controlled. The turn pictured in the above link is S14 at Autobahn Country Club south course, which is a mildly fast 3rd gear turn. Maybe 75-80 mph in my street car? There's decent g forces going thru there, but I would not define it as a "fast" turn. Nor are any of them at ABCC for that matter. I can think of two (S4 and S6) where you have a slight pucker factor. But still not considered "fast."

[CMDR Perry]

I did this upgrade a few years ago. I added some Heim joint style end links to remove the pre-load on the rear bar. This made the car very neutral in terms of handling.

[avr924]

Thanks for all the input guys, I think I have some sway bars located, just working out the details. My plan was to just compile the parts over the next month or so, but I happen to look online the other day and found some polybronze bushings to go with. They are on the way right now. I am considering 21/27 t bars for a nice street/track compromise and set the car at Euro height. I'll try to post a pic of my car in a corner so you can see my starting point

[RoninLB]

i found a big difference between 21/27 & 22/28 T-bars on the street

unless you like it real hard use the 21/27
good shocks and very good tires and the car stays together no matter how hard the suspension is pushed.. even if pushed off the road into a few shallow ditches at 75 mph
btdt

[Jdub]

I do not see what year of car you have? In all events, I have done exactly what you are suggesting and my regrets may include the stiffer 'bars. I own a very early '78 that is lighter than most SCs. As a result, the 'skateboard on wheels' effect of the 911 is enhanced to say the least.

If you intend another DE vehicle I would go with stock - it may not actually be an upgrade.

[arbita1]

Originally Posted by gtc

I think that putting in huge torsion bars without a similar change in sway bar rates is a poor strategy. No offense, Matt.

Originally Posted by KTL

I'd disagree on the large main torsion bar usage w/out upgrading sways. Using larger torsions help the car corner a bit flatter in slower areas and does take some of the burden away from the sways. That being said, larger torsions still don't eliminate all of the body roll. I put 22/29 torsions on my '87 and it still had a bunch of roll.

I will not disagree that larger adjustable through-body sways would have been the way to go. Unfortunately budget at the time was limited and I had to go with the Carrera set up. The change from stock 20/18 to 22/21 was a decent upgrade though.

The other way I was looking at this is, if you look at Elephant Racings Street/Track 2 set up, this is basically what I was modeling mine after. They use 22/22 swaybars with 22/29 torsion bars. So I figured the 22/21 Carrera set up would be pretty close. Basically (from what I found) all the manufactures Weltmeister, ERP, Tarret all offer 22/22 as their largest size. Only SRP makes the larger diameter bars. They actually recommend their No. 20 bar with my set up which is 23mm diam. So I don't think I'm far off. Am I missing something?

[Flieger]

The under-A-arm style has less mechanical advantage, so a Carrera front 22mm is not as stiff as a 22mm through body.

[jomalkay]

Quick question, I have an 81 SC, from my understanding, upgrading an 87 carrera 22 front sway bar is a direct bolt on with the proper bushings, is the rear G50 style also a direct bolt on with the correct bushings?
Read through many threads and am not so clear. I'm 80% done reworking all suspension, PB bushings, ER 22/28 t-bars, other small stuff, no money for Tarret sway bars at the moment, but all is ready to be re-installed and figured if i have a set of low cost under mount 22 / 21 sway bars, would be good idea.

[juanbenae]

Originally Posted by jomalkay

Quick question, I have an 81 SC, from my understanding, upgrading an 87 carrera 22 front sway bar is a direct bolt on with the proper bushings, is the rear G50 style also a direct bolt on with the correct bushings?
Read through many threads and am not so clear. I'm 80% done reworking all suspension, PB bushings, ER 22/28 t-bars, other small stuff, no money for Tarret sway bars at the moment, but all is ready to be re-installed and figured if i have a set of low cost under mount 22 / 21 sway bars, would be good idea.

yes, the bigger bushing should be all you need both front and rear. there are horror stories about installing the fronts without dropping the a-arms or more. i was able to do it with plenty of lube on the new bushings, dropping the strut top out of the tower. that and a carpenters bar clamp.

leave the rear bar disconnected when align & balancing. with an under body OE the front is impractical to unhinge for alignment work.

[Flieger]

You can unbolt the bars from the chassis, not the arms, then shim them after the corner-balance and alignment to ensure no pre-load.

[KTL]

Yes the G50 rear bar is a direct bolt on. I put one on a '79 with no issues. The bars are similar in dimension aside from the G50 having a bend in the middle to clear the fatter transmission caseGthe