Experts.. what would you do? Engine?

[gsmith660]

I would go ahead and put the motor back in and running and then do a proper compression test when the motor is fully warmed up I am willing to bet you get totally different numbers the numbers you got reflect what I have got when doing a check on a cold motor and mine runs just fine.

[gsmith660]

Yep those are what I had as well glad to see you have what you need

Originally Posted by 911lvr

It really has been a good day. the final parts showed up today from a fellow pelican (THANKS!!) and so now I think I have everything I need. Parts to redo CIS (injectors, sleeves, orings, runner boots, fixed FD), parts for oil leaks ( the trinity and the oil cooler), wiring harness almost all fixed, Parts to rebuild the CV joints, misc little things like ground straps and the tensioners.

Also, I have ALL sat to myself with not a single commitment!! woo hoo. Guess what ill be doing?

[j911brick]

Originally Posted by 911pcars

Do you have that much time on your hands? If so, R&R drivetrain practice makes perfect.

Why not just turn the engine over by hand or with the starter as it sits (w/gearbox attached)? Ideally, the engine should be normal operating temp. for a valid leakage test numbers. However, you already know a cylinder is down on compression. You now want to confirm the source of compression loss. It being cold isn't going to change the leakage source.

Sherwood

The engine has already been turned over. Knowing a cylinder is down is one thing - knowing why is another. Since the motor has sat for so long there are a number of things that could cause a low compression reading that may self correct with a little time.

The original goal of the OP was to just getting it up and running to see what he had to work with - the goal was not to do a complete restoration before ever driving it.

To spite the low compression I bet it will run, and possibly without any problems except low power. I've seen motors in worse condition that ran fine, and were even raced (and won) without incident.

R&R the motor is not that big a deal. My opinion is its time to wrap this up and get it going.

[j911brick]

Originally Posted by lucittm

James,
You should go back and re-read your post, it is less than ideal.

Ideal is one thing, but I don't think it was the goal of the OP to start with a perfect motor. I think the idea was just to get the motor running without doing further damage.

Originally Posted by lucittm

Second, if the engine is out, a leakdown test is much easier to do than when the engine is in.

Its not that big a deal to do while the engine is in the car. Certainly not the end of the world.

SO what is the value of the information? If the leak is bad (which it will be) is it reasonable to expect the OP, who is probably on a budget, to do a complete rebuild?

Originally Posted by lucittm

Third, so what if there are "stuck rings or something" the leakdown test simply points to the amount of leakage (by percent) and where the air is going. It is a quantitative test and that makes it valid.

Its not quantitative if the information is not used to some useful end. IOW: Is this information absolutely needed to proceed to the next step?

Originally Posted by lucittm

Fourth, a comparison with the other cylinders will help 911lvr make a diagnostic decision on which way to go with his rebuild-or-not choice.

Not really. Its just another data point of many, and probably not the most significant when deciding to do a rebuild. If I recall correctly, the OP has already expressed a reluctance to rebuild at this time. He just ants to get it running first.

Originally Posted by lucittm

Fifth, if you have ever properly used a leakdown tester, you would know how valid the test can be BEFORE putting in the engine back in and driving the car.

...and if you have ever used them you should know how inconclusive they can be. I'e seen cylinders with low compression have good leak, and cylinders with good compression have poor leak. Like I said, its one data point of many.

Jeeze I wonder how people ever got their cars running before the days of leakdown testers. It must have been black magic or something.

Don't get me wrong: I'm not saying a leakdown test is a bad thing. I just think its not necessary for the OP to accomplish his goal, and it is one more delay that doesn't have to happen.

[gsmith660]

I have to agree with the above post I would get just get it running and deal with what that brings when it gets here. The OP corrected what he found that was obvious and wrong and that as I recall was the goal of this. It is not that big a deal with the exception of the cost of the oil now days but he should change that again pretty quick after he flushes all that years old gunk out of the motor to drop the motor back out if he finds something he cant live with.

[911pcars]

My cousin (RIP) would say quite frequently, "Good enough".

So it would seem to many on this thread.

MHO,
Sherwood

[gsmith660]

I don't think thats it at all if I was doing this and this is also just my opinion then I would do what needed to be done to get it running to evaluate if this motor is worth a full rebuild and that is what I see many doing in this thread. Personally if I got it running and it had bad numbers on 1 cylinder then I might consider fixing the 1 and doing new bearings and reseal amoung other things. But if I got it running and warmed up and then compression test or a leakdown indicated 3 or 4cylinders bad then I would most likely look for another motor and I would have bought parts for this motor that could be used on another motor. There were a lot of shakey things that had been done to this motor on the outside but nothing that I saw warrented cracking the case until it got evaluated when running.

Originally Posted by 911pcars

My cousin (RIP) would say quite frequently, "Good enough".

So it would seem to many on this thread.

MHO,
Sherwood

[j911brick]

Originally Posted by gsmith660

There were a lot of shakey things that had been done to this motor on the outside but nothing that I saw warrented cracking the case until it got evaluated when running.

The thing that got my attention was the loose timing chains. The only way to fix that properly is to replace the sprockets, and requires splitting the case. But still, it out of the scope of this project right now.

[MichiganMat]

God what a journey!

Engine is looking great, stick with it!

[gsmith660]

That is true and it is a wear item and I would check it now but would not split the case for just them. I am only saying that after sitting for a long time I had a cylinder that had low numbers once and I waited until I had the motor up and running and warmed it up a couple times and the miss that it had from that cylinder went away and the numbers came back up. So sometimes it just takes getting everything limbered up.

Originally Posted by j911brick

The thing that got my attention was the loose timing chains. The only way to fix that properly is to replace the sprockets, and requires splitting the case. But still, it out of the scope of this project right now.

[j911brick]

Originally Posted by gsmith660

had a cylinder that had low numbers once and I waited until I had the motor up and running and warmed it up a couple times and the miss that it had from that cylinder went away and the numbers came back up. So sometimes it just takes getting everything limbered up.

Exactly!

[911lvr]

good morning everyone. I would have to say this thread has definitely generated some interest.

Thank you all for your feed back. I went to the parts store today and talked to the manager who told me on the phone he had a leakdown tester. Well, the manager of the store does not know the difference between a compression tester and a leak down tester! I went to 3 other parts stores looking for one while explaining to people what it was and what it did with all of them looking at me like I had 3 heads. what happened to the day when the people working at the store actually knew something about what they were selling. i really miss that. 9 time out of 10 when i go into any store I know more about the product then the people selling it.

Anyway as you can guess by my little tirade is i have a free day to work on the car and no leakdown tester. I know I can use my compression tester and fill it up with air but all that will tell me is if air is getting by not how much.

im getting pretty frustrated. This has been a ton of work and eveytime i think im close to putting it back together something else comes up.

so im sitting here now trying to decide what direction to go and what would be useful information or not.

Honestly, im thinking im just going to go wash my Audi.

[911Freak]

Marc, totally understand your frustration.

Why not just continue to assemble (you have all the parts) and do the leakdown later?!

Maybe get the tensioners on and button up the chain covers and start on the fuel system?

Lots to do with out getting hung up on leak down test....

Just sayin

Lots of us here hoping you catch a break and make some progress, you're due brother!

[lucittm]

911lvr,
I have a leakdown tester and I would be happy to let you borrow it. I can box it up tonight and have it there for you on Tuesday.

Or you can build your own this weekend. Do a Google search, there are several plans out there and the big box home improvement stores have all the parts you need.

PM me if you are interested.

Mark

[911lvr]

hello all. so I made a decision. I know its not going to be popular with everyone but I have reached the F$#K it stage and im just putting this thing together with all the new parts and putting it back in the car. Then once it is running I will reevaluate where I stand. I think it would be beneficial to get accurate readings on a warm engine and then take those readings and make decisions for the future. the biggest pain i see about having to remove the engine again is using up alot of oil. I figure since im planning on running it for a short while and then when everything is flowing properly changing the oil again anyway I dont really stand much risk in putting it back in the car. It only took me 3 hours to take it out last time and I didnt know what I was I was doing or have the lift. So its a calculated risk im willing to take.

For all the people that disagree with this, dont take it as a personal affront to your advice. Im sure what you have to say is valid im just choosing a path that is right for me at this time. Otherwise I might just push the entire thing into the street and hope some one takes it!

So today I replaced all the seal in the oil cooler and then did the oil trinity. At least i finally got something done today.

Its a great board with lots of great people and I thank you all.

Marc

[911Freak]

Atta boy!!! Get 'er done baby!!

[gsmith660]

You will get to a point where it only takes you 45mins. to an hour to drop her out not counting draining the oil.

[j911brick]

Originally Posted by 911Freak

Atta boy!!! Get 'er done baby!!

yepp'er!

[dhagood]

Originally Posted by 911lvr

I know its not going to be popular with everyone

the only person your decision has to be popular with is you. it's your car, your wallet, your time, and your life. ask your questions, evaluate the responses, and do what seems best to you.

you don't owe anybody here any apologies for any of your actions. if you make a mistake, perhaps somebody else will learn from it.

good luck, get 'er done, and drive it like you stole it.

[Neil '67 911S]

Yamaha sells a product called Ring-Free, which is a gasoline additive. Lots of folks freeze up their boat engines because they didn't put them up properly. Use the Ring-Free shock-treatment when you get the engine up and running. It'll help free any stuck rings. I've had good luck with this stuff waking up engines that have sat un-run for far too long.