I make Parallel Flow Micro-Channel Condensers for 911's front and rear

[scottb]

Originally Posted by DaveMcKenz

Were yo able to route those hoses, and have the function you were looking for?
Thanks,
Dave

That's what I was thinking...how do the hoses get routed?

[KelogGes]

Originally Posted by DaveMcKenz

Hi Reid,
I have a couple of questions about the Black Swan:
What is the air circulation on the front condenser fan?
It looks like you have two 10 foot hoses in a temporary hookup to reverse the condenser order. Were yo able to route those hoses, and have the function you were looking for?
Thanks,
Dave

These photo's show the the layout and result of a quick test and final test and proof it worked amazingly excellent using my PFC's.

CAREFULLY LOOK AT THE LOW SIDE AND HIGH SIDE GAS PRESSURES!!!
AND THE AIR VENT TEMP GAUGE!!!

the hoses, fittings, hose clamps, front fan etc., used are only for temporary test use to prove this works or not

The round coaxial fan you see was hand placed without sealing over where the OEM squirrel cage fan goes so it had a blower on the front PFC
notice the clip on leads in the picture

Sorry, I am not going to address your question "you have two 10 foot hoses in a temporary hookup to reverse the condenser order" here and let people just figure it out from the clues I gave; but I will call you

[wwest]

Do the numbers....

Front condenser, 22X6" 132 sq. inch. Average airflow, 110 FPM.

Factory condenser, blower. 60 airflow measurements, 3 measurements each inch across.

Rear condenser, 800 RPM engine idle, 27.5X8.5" 233 sq. inch. Average airflow 150 FPM.

Anomaly: No measureable airflow for the first 10" of front condenser from battery side, peak measurement was 430 FPM at 11"

Conclusion: rear condenser is 240% more effective at heat transfer vs the front lip condenser.

"Boosted" rear condenser airflow using the cabin heat blower = 186 FPM.

Cabin heat blower airflow inlet is open to atmosphere and sleeved for increased "work".

[DaveMcKenz]

Thanks, Reid. I am having a hard time reading the pressures, but have no doubt that they are excellent.
West, There is no reason that both your improvement and Reid's could not work together. You may remember that I use your cabin/engine blower whenever the a/c is active. I also have two 8" condenser fans on the rear deck.
Reid, because I have a lot invested in my current system, I will continue to work with it for a while. I am interested in your arrangement, but have not quite committed to it yet.
Thanks,
Dave

[wwest]

Originally Posted by DaveMcKenz

Thanks, Reid. I am having a hard time reading the pressures, but have no doubt that they are excellent.
West, There is no reason that both your improvement and Reid's could not work together. You may remember that I use your cabin/engine blower whenever the a/c is active. I also have two 8" condenser fans on the rear deck.
Reid, because I have a lot invested in my current system, I will continue to work with it for a while. I am interested in your arrangement, but have not quite committed to it yet.
Thanks,
Dave

The only reason I can see for using "reid's" reverse flow technique is if you have a problem with engine overheating, otherwise, NO advantage.

[KelogGes]

DaveMcKenz

words of wisdom and experience

Extra Rear Deck Fans are never needed

YOU HAVE A HUGE 911 ENGINE FAN that will pull the balls off a goat

Seal your rear deck lid condenser so it is COMPLETELY sealed to the rear deck lid and let the engine do the work with its fan!

toss the useless fans you added, or give them to wwest to sell to some unsuspecting numskull LoL

[wwest]

Originally Posted by KelogGes

DaveMcKenz

words of wisdom and experience

Extra Rear Deck Fans are never needed

YOU HAVE A HUGE 911 ENGINE FAN that will pull the balls off a goat


Yes, 3000 RPM and above...!

Seal your rear deck lid condenser so it is COMPLETELY sealed to the rear deck lid and let the engine do the work with its fan!

toss the useless fans you added, or give them to wwest to sell to some unsuspecting numskull LoL

Please take note that everyone reading these threads is very well aware of the single MAJOR shortcoming of our Porsche A/C systems.

You appear to be the sole exception.

[KelogGes]

Quote:
Originally Posted by KelogGes View Post
DaveMcKenz

words of wisdom and experience

Extra Rear Deck Fans are never needed

YOU HAVE A HUGE 911 ENGINE FAN that will pull the balls off a goat


Yes, 3000 RPM and above...!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I never said this

Seal your rear deck lid condenser so it is COMPLETELY sealed to the rear deck lid and let the engine do the work with its fan!
[QUOTE=wwest;8554467]/QUOTE]


Extra Rear Deck Fans are never needed

YOU HAVE A HUGE 911 ENGINE FAN that will pull the balls off a goat


"Yes, 3000 RPM and above...!"

Seal your rear deck lid condenser so it is COMPLETELY sealed to the rear deck lid and let the engine do the work with its fan!


warning wwest

STOP PUTTING YOUR WORDS IN ANY MESSAGE AGAIN TO MAKE IT LOOK LIKE I SAID THEM

OR WE CAN GO TO COURT IN A LAW SUITE

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED! FOR THE LAST TIME

[wwest]

[QUOTE=KelogGes;8554484]

Originally Posted by wwest

/QUOTE]


Extra Rear Deck Fans are never needed

YOU HAVE A HUGE 911 ENGINE FAN that will pull the balls off a goat


"Yes, 3000 RPM and above...!"

Seal your rear deck lid condenser so it is COMPLETELY sealed to the rear deck lid and let the engine do the work with its fan!


warning wwest

STOP PUTTING WORDS IN ANY MESSAGE AGAIN TO MAKE IT LOOK LIKE I SAID THEM

OR WE CAN GO TO COURT IN A LAW SUITE

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED! FOR THE LAST TIME

I have an attorney on staff... Go for it!

[KelogGes]

[QUOTE=wwest;8554518]

Originally Posted by KelogGes

I have an attorney on staff... Go for it!

What is his name address and telephone number????

[tirwin]

[wwest]

[QUOTE=KelogGes;8554568]

Originally Posted by wwest

What is his name address and telephone number????

Just file your charges, he'll respond accordingly.

[Winter]

LOL! Exactly!

[KelogGes]

OK

I know who are and where you live I looked you up before

you were easy to find

[Ronnie's.930]

[KelogGes]

Originally Posted by ganun

Hey, If it works in a Miami summer its a good system even though I did not replace the front cond nor its blower. ( With global warming looming I still have that option for the future. hehehe)
But it is true that the decklid cond , while huge and fit without any issues, at first glance one could think it should be at least a couple of inches longer left to right but then on assembly one realizes the 90 degree hose couplers need clearance to not foul the hinges.
Cheers,
PS there was a large P car spring picnic at C.B.Smith park this Sunday and we had a small group of us Retro owners discussing our systems and helping others that were in the process of purchasing or installing. It was great, you should have gone.

George if you’re ever going to meet with these guys again at C.B.Smith park or some other place down here to discuss Porsche A/C I would be interested in meeting with you guys

[KelogGes]

Originally Posted by DaveMcKenz

It seems the hose will go from compressor to front condenser, then back to rear deck condenser, the forward again to receiver/drier, then evaporator.
That is pretty much one extra trip front and back to pick up rear condenser. I'm not sure that's really a problem, but it does mean extra hose, unless I am missing something. (Which is very possible.)
Dave

Dave is starting to get this this using his brain

use your brain and think about reversing the gases

this is not about necessarily using my PFC''s

the pictures I posted are proof this works far better than the traditional way

figure it out in your brain

Doing this makes an incredible difference for several reasons

[wwest]

Dave is starting to get this this using his brain

use your brain and think about reversing the gases

this is not about necessarily using my PFC''s

the pictures I posted are proof this works far better than the traditional way

figure it out in your brain

Doing this makes an incredible difference for several reasons

KeloGes' statement:

"words of wisdom and experience

Extra Rear Deck Fans are never needed

YOU HAVE A HUGE 911 ENGINE FAN that will pull the balls off a goat

Seal your rear deck lid condenser so it is COMPLETELY sealed to the rear deck lid and let the engine do the work with its fan!

toss the useless fans you added, or give them to wwest to sell to some unsuspecting numskull LoL"

wwest's statement:

"Do the numbers....

Front condenser, 22X6" 132 sq. inch. Average airflow, 110 FPM.

Factory condenser, blower. 60 airflow measurements, 3 measurements each inch across.

Rear condenser, 800 RPM engine idle, 27.5X8.5" 233 sq. inch. Average airflow 150 FPM.

Anomaly: No measureable airflow for the first 10" of front condenser from battery side, peak measurement was 430 FPM at 11"

Conclusion: rear condenser is 240% more effective at heat transfer vs the front lip condenser.

"Boosted" rear condenser airflow using the cabin heat blower = 186 FPM.

Cabin heat blower airflow inlet is open to atmosphere and sleeved for increased "work"."


KeloGes is correct, the engine cooling fan will pull the balls off of a goat.

With the engine RPM at or above 2500 RPM.

FACT: The factory stock rear lid condenser is 240% more effective at cooling the refrigerant vs the front lip condenser.

From the numbers it is quite clear that rerouting the refrigerant flow to the front lip condenser first would yeild no A/C performance gain whatsoever.

So KeloGes's brilliant idea turns out to be nothing more than a SHAM, putup!

It's pretty clear that the least expensive & complex method, most elegant method, for improving the performance of our A/C is to add cooling airflow through the rear lid condenser, be it Spal fans or simply engaging the cabin heat blower. (or both??) The latter can be done selectively in the '84-88 models, or direct connection to a trinary switch. In worse case switched on with the A/C as with the front lip blower.

Switching fans on with compressor clutch power is not the best of ideas since the high pressure remains for quite some time post compressor shut down.

[Mark at Pelican Parts]

Many complaints about the direction of this thread from fellow Pelicans. This thread has run its course.

Mark at Pelican Parts