New Green Wire Installed! Still No Spark!

[Vincent Hill]

I Started the Thread "I am stuck" No Spark! Thinking that the Permatune had gone bad, I bought an MSD 6AL #6425 and wired the Large Red Wire to the Starter and the Large Black Wire to the Engine and have a good Circuit.

I wired These wires to the 6 pin Connector as follows
Orange wire to the Positive side of the Coil #A
Black wire to the Ground for the Negative side of the Coil #31/1
Purple wire to the Shielded side of the New Green Wire to the Dist #31d
Green Wire to the Center wire of the New Green wire to the Dist #7
Red Wire to the Red Power wire in the 6 Pin Connector for Switched Voltage #15
Gray Wire to the Tach #A

Per John Walker I did find that the Original Green wire was a problem and replaced it.

I also Removed the Dist and cleaned years of rust out of it so that the Weights move easily and checked the Coil which read .580 resistance Like I saw on Bob K's Pic.

With the Switch on I see Battery Voltage on Pin #15. 12.74 Volts

Two things are I still have no Spark of "ANY KIND" and the MSD unit RED Light does not come on when I turn on the Key!

I have also tried reconnecting the Permnatune and Nothing there either?

The Battery is Fully charged and while cranking I see 12.4 volts and static I see between 12.9 and 12.7 volts depending on if I have been cranking it.

For the New readers, I drove the car to church a few weeks ago and after church it started up and died. It has never restarted.

This HAS Wore me out because everything reads as it should but NOTHING is happening? I even see the voltage fluctuation between the 2 dist wires when turning it over.

My thought at this time are That the Bad Green wire ruined the Permatune (Which will explain why it is not working now) and that the New MSD was simply Bad to begin with?

Anyone, Any Ideas?? John Walker? Bob K?

[schumicat]

to test the coil you need to test both the primary and secondary sides. one should have very high and one very low resistance (can't recall which).

[SchnellSchweitz]

Check to make sure there is 12 volts on the small Red wire from the MSD when the key is in the On position. If 12 volts are not present, find another 12 volt source and repeat the test.

(Edit)

I reread your post and it looks like you may have already checked this and found the red wire has 12V.

Did you try this?

If you are using the 2-Pin Magnetic Pickup of the MSD to trigger the ignition, follow these steps.

- Make sure the ignition switch is in the Off position.
- Remove the coil wire from the distributor cap and position the terminal so it is approximately 1/2" from a good ground.
- Disconnect the MSD Magnetic Pickup connector from the distributor.
- Turn the ignition to the On position. DO NOT CRANK THE ENGINE.
- With a small jumper wire, short the Green and Violet magnetic pickup wires together then pull the jumper off. Each time the short is removed a spark should jump If spark is present, the ignition is working properly.

MAKE SURE THE GROUND LOCATION YOU USE IS FAR AWAY FROM ANY GAS LINES!!!

[Bob Kontak]

Is the RPM pill in the side of the MSD box? May not have one with the digital unit.

Edit - Vincent's box has rpm control that can be set without a pill.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by SchnellSchweitz

Each time the short is removed a spark should jump If spark is present, the ignition is working properly.

Nice!!

[moneymanager]

No, he's accounted for these. See first sentence.

[JP911]

Originally Posted by moneymanager

No, he's accounted for these. See first sentence.

Yeah, I went back and re-read. Response deleted.

Other thoughts: 1. you may have a bad MSD box (not unheard of), or 2. there's something wrong in the wiring. Personally, I prefer the route of creating your own wiring harness rather than plugging/splicing into the old factory CDI connector. Here's a writeup I put together a while back about how to do this. It was for a twin plug setup, but the basic principles are the same: How to set up two MSD or Mallory boxes for twin plug ignition

[Bob Kontak]

mm - what post #? Oh - in the original thread?

[Bob Kontak]

Hi Vince - I am going to pm you my phone number.

I think if you go thru JP11's link in a totally anal retentive manner you will find that you made a silly blunder.

I "made" my own wiring and only one wire is in the female 6 pin connector. I will check what I can against your list in post #1.

The most important thing that Steve Weiner talks about is the main ground. If you have it grounded out to the back of the seat fabric it won't cut it - joking - you get what I am sayin. But even a so-so ground will allow the car to start.. I am sure you mentioned the ground in the other thread.

Edit - Damn, I see Steve W blessed the data in the link. You don't need to call me - you need to follow his directions. Call anyway. Steve said once I was on the "right track" or something like that. I printed that thread page, framed it and hung it above the fireplace. :-)

[BURN-BROS]

Hi Vincent.

The first task to do is verify why the red light on the unit does not come on. As per the instructions the light will turn on with the key in the run position but the engine is off. the light will then flash with each corresponding ignition cycle.

Verify that you did not crimp the terminal rings improperly and that your ground is good.

If all 3 wires (power, ground, switched power) are good then the problem is the box.

You could also bench test the unit, using a battery, wiring the ground to ground, the power to positive and touching the switch wire to positive to verify outside the car.

[Lorenfb]

As I said before, it may have been simpler to find an original
Bosch CDI or as a minimum:

1. Troubleshoot the Perma-Tune setup and eventually
find the green wire problem and fix it.
2. Further troubleshoot the Perma-Tune setup and
the standard wiring setup without introducing new
problems by using the MSD.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by Lorenfb

1. Troubleshoot the Perma-Tune setup and eventually
find the green wire problem and fix it.

And once he gets the PTune running he should throw it away and get a Bosch, newer (tougher) Permatune or MSD. The end.

No certainty the green wire is the culprit. Maybe, but not for certain. He is doing the right thing with the MSD box - in my opinion. The work involved is huge to do a snappy install but the insurance factor when up and running is worth the trade off.

That said, If I had bought a Bosch box when my FIRST PTune went out, I would feel as strongly as you regarding the original equipment.

Point is big-time moot now for Vincent.

He needs to check if the MSD is getting power.

[Vincent Hill]

"WOW" This is ALL Anyone can ask for PLUS 10%! Thank You Guys! #1, Bob I have your Number You now have mine!

I Wondered how to test the Unit Burn Bro, I Am going do that NEXT! I will Pull out all of the wiring and Test that on the Battery. If I do NOT Get a red light, then I will take the wiring apart and remove the extensions and test again. If I get the red light to turn on then I will report this back here and eat my own crow and then "Using 14 gauge wire Solder everything and test again. If OK "THEN" I will put it back together and it should work.

I think everyone should know how much this is appreciated!

Also I did put the #7 and 31d wire together (I needed to add I am referring to The wires from the MSD that insert into the connector) with the Ignition ON WITH the Coil wire about 1/4" from a KNOWN Ground and NOTHING!

Last for now, I am glad that everyone knows I am serious about this and took what I was doing VERY Seriously

[Vincent Hill]

I just pulled the wires and went to the trunk and hooked the main Black & Red wires to the Battery. I then touched the Red wire to Positive and NOTHING! I then did it again and by accident something Sparked and the Red light turned on. I then tried to repeat this and found that the Red wire I had marked with Black tape to be the Orange wire for the Coil, was Actually the correct RED wire. I have now put a bright blue shrink wrap on the coil wire to make sure that there is only 1 red wire and everything else id different!

I do not know if the car will run yet but at least this is resolved. When I have more time I will hook it all back up and see if it Runs. More later. Did I say Thank You to Everyone??

[Bob Kontak]

Good you found the problem.

[Vincent Hill]

DONE DEAL!! The car is running perfectly First thanks to The Man John Walker who correctly diagnosed the Green wire. Second to Bob K for holding my hand while I went through this and Being there for any help I needed. Next to Burn Bro for giving me a 100% sure way to check the MSD out and to see if it was working.

But Last and most important JP911 Who was one of the first to show the wiring for MSD 6AL. ON THE ROAD AGAIN!!

When I bought this car the PO said he had an ignition problem and did not know what it was. I think it was Always the GREEN WIRE

[JP911]

NICE!!! Congrats! Feels great when you finally nail it and get it running.

[zippy_gg]

Originally Posted by JP911

NICE!!! Congrats! Feels great when you finally nail and get it running.

Vincent can't respond right now; he went on a long celebratory drive!

[Vincent Hill]

Originally Posted by zippy_gg

Vincent can't respond right now; he went on a long celebratory drive!

You got that right!

JP911, I would not have even "Thought about" putting in the MSD if not for seeing what you and a few others did plus the information on a few of your threads.

I need to personally thank "Ken 911" because he was the one that got me to pull the Distributor. Yes, I could have checked everything with the Dist in but taking it apart was the Best part of this deal.

I found that the Mechanical Advance was TOTALLY Locked up from rust and age. After spraying about 1/2 can of Brake cleaner to get all of the filth out and then WD 40 and PB Blaster to get everything freed up I then sprayed everything with Triflon (Teflon Impregnated Oil) so that the Weight snap in place.

When I was taking that ride that Zippy mentioned, I had set the timing on my own mark which was at the edge of Knocking. The first time I stepped on it the rattle was loud and Immediate. I pulled over and retarded the timing a lot (Moved the Dist about 3/16 inch. Got back in the car and stepped on it again and it Knocked loud but a little higher up in the RPMS. Pulled over again and moved the Dist the same amount again and this time it did not knock until I got to the Peak RPMS And this time I made a small adjustment and went over to a Friends house for a visit.

I ended up making 2 more small adjustments to that it does not knock and will put the light on it to see where I ended up. It seems that I had NO Mechanical Advance at all and looking in there changed the performance profile for the Better. You Just never know what yopu will find in these older cars and need to check everything!

Now to moving the Horns and mounting the Fan on the Oil Cooler first and then mounting the Power steering.

[zippy_gg]

Originally Posted by Vincent Hill

Now to moving the Horns and mounting the Fan on the Oil Cooler first and then mounting the Power steering.

Which fan kit are you going with? My 86 Carrera does not have one, which was not a problem for the PO who lived in MD, but I see a need in the much hotter SOCAL.