Resurrecting "Track Beauty" Thread

[82SC]

Well this is Jack O's original thread
http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9926

Since I am thinking of building a car from the ground up I wanted to see what ideas some of you had...

I know some responses will be "No expense spared"...but I would like to hear from realistic plans too...mine will probably be a project that will be stretched over a period of time and I will sink money into it as time goes by...30/70 track and road split

hmmm...lets see

Early 911 tub (1969-1973)

Body: either RSR, ST, or 930 front all around, ST front spoiler (wide S type), no tail, glass duck tail for track events, Hella yellow fogs, Gunmetal grey or Silver...mobil horse on the fender and maybe porsche script below door a la Cris H...

Interior: Lobster red leather interior, rear seat delete, RS door panels, RS carpet, RUF-type hidden roll cage (possible?), decent sound system, no A/C, heat, power windows, sunroof (?), later style sport seats or period sport seats or Recaros (subtle style)

Brakes: 930 calipers non-boosted/power brakes...(can I use later 930 front rotors on the front since I will have the flares in front as well?), stainless steel lines

Suspension: ??? not too sure about this...most go with the later SC Al trailing arms...adjustable spring plates...sitck with torsion bars...anyone have a good setup?? Bilstein/Koni shocks...

Wheels: 7, 9 x 16 Fuchs with black centers polished lips (should I go with 8" in front?)

Engine: 3.5L...SC core 74.4mm stroke, 3.2L con rods with 10mm bolts, 100mm 9.8:1 or 10.3:1, 3.2L heads twin plugged with 964 dizzy, race springs, Ti retainers, port and polished....MFI/46mm PMO's...SSI 2 in 2out Dansk

I have a pretty good idea how I am going to tackle most of the car but I am really interested in suspension ideas...my knowledge of suspensions is pretty minimal...I know there are advantages of different rear trailing arms for better suspension geometry...but what does all that mean?...are the front suspensions pretty similar except for high perform buchings, t-bars, sway bars, etc...?
some people go to full coil overs...is that prohibtively expensive?
A detailed plan for a good suspesion setup would be great...

hmmm lets hear your plans and pictures too!!!

[82SC]

oh here is a pic of the RUF roll cage...

is this enough for most track clubs etc...?
the advantage is that RUF upholsters over it so it is hidden so you daily driver does not look out of place with a roll cage crusing on the 405....

I imagine I can bolt in a belt harness to the seat belt uppr mounts when needed...also my camera mount will go there...but most of the time it will look like a stock interior...

is this track legal???

[stuttgart]

Jack,
You are on the right track now brother... i too have a Silver car and I'm in the process of gather Red intrior panel's and carpet. I too feel this is the BEST color combo for a silver Porsche..AND SILVER IS A PORSCHE CLASSIC. I wish you the best of luck with this project I wish I had the fund's to finish mine off soon.
Eric Mckenna,
78SC

[TRE Cup]

a Ruf style cage would be trick- buy one from them. You can bet it would cost a fortune to make one here. Local area fab shops charge about $4500-6500 for a custom cage like that.
When we have installed weld in cages, we have had to cut open the roof rain gutters, remove the top shell, to complete the job correctly- radical stuff for a street car
That's why we like das sport and safety devices products- it gets done professionally, quickly, and at a reasonable price

[Jack Olsen]

Stuttgart, '82SC' is not the same as 'JackOlsen'... although have to say I like the way the guy thinks!

82SC, it sounds like you have a great car in mind (a lot like what I've thought about doing). If you've got Turbo/RSR flares on it, though, I'd go with wider wheels in front and back than what you're talking about. 7x9x16 works with RS-style rear flares and stock fronts. No real point in putting spacers in and messing up the steering geometry if it doesn't get you more grip. And if you get wider wheels, I'd suggest not getting 16's. There just aren't a lot of tires available for 9x11x16 wheels.

My thinking was to get HRE or Lindsey Racing 3-piece Fuchs made, like Mike Marshall has on his (awesome) Carrera RS clone. That way you can have 17-inch wheels, and not have to worry about having to run lame tires -- and you can maintain the look of the early Fuchs. If you paint the circle of bolts black (in keeping with the idea of polished lips and spokes with black-painted insets), they'll look like the 15-inch wheels of the era... only cooler.

One other suggestion. The more I've modified my car, the less useful my stereo has become. With a sport muffler and a stiffer suspension, a CD player is going to be sorely tested (especially as the years pass and it continues to get shaken up on a regular basis), and without a cushy interior with lots of padding, it's just hard to get decent sound out of even the most expensive equipment. If I had to do it again, I'd delete the heavy (and pricey) radio, amp and speaker boxes, and simply get one of those Apple iPods (or something like that) and a pair of earphones. Wearing earphones used to look conpicuous, but now that everybody and his mother has a hands free cell phone, the stick-in-your-ear kind of earpiece won't raise any eyebrows.

I'd also go with coilovers in the rear, if you're putting together that cool of a car. It's a less popular mod in the front because it limits wheel/tire size, but that won't be such an issue for you with Turbo/RSR flares. You might want to do it all around. As torsion bars get stiffer (up above 30mm) they also start to hit the limit of their ability to work well. Springs can give you a stiffer suspension while also being a little less bone-rattling.

Also on steering and suspension: when Tyson Schmidt was recently down here visiting, he cautioned me against jumping in with both feet on wider flares all around. His advice was to first drive a car with the Turbo setup to see how much the wider rubber and compromised steering geometry takes away from the legendary feel of the Carrera RS. As I understand it, with the increased scrub radius up front, the car becomes kind of a monster to maneuver -- you lose that 'it knows where I'm thinking about going, and just goes there' quality that the slightly narrower early cars offer.

Then again, three extra inches of rubber can do a lot for you in a long sweeper. But it's a compromise that Tyson suspected I wouldn't want to make, if I tried driving a car with the wider stance. People say a lot of things about Turbos, but nimble handling and loads of driver input don't often make it into their praise. I still haven't driven one yet, so -- for me -- the jury's still out. We'll see.

[Jack Olsen]

Oh, and unless you really hate the look of the front mounted cooler (I'm not crazy about it myself), then I'd skip the S-style spoiler and save yourself the headaches of trying to cool down that hopped up SC engine of yours. Why? Well, once that overstressed 3.0 case gives up the ghost (and probably a head stud or two ), then you're going to bite the bullet and drop in a tweaked 3.6. At that point, you'll need all the cooling capacity you can get.

[82SC]

awwww...come on I know there are more of you out there with elaborate plans and no funds to push them thru!!!! And some have those half finished projects out back that just seem to suck up money like a black hole and not progress forward!!!

Come on...vent your dreams here for posterity...trust me it takes the edge off that sad depressing feeling...

[widebody911]

Ok, here's my idea of a dedicated, no-holds-barred track car:



A 917 replica! There's a company in Australia that makes (what appears to be) a very accurate reproduction that uses later-model 911 running gear, ie engine, trans, brakes. Without drivetrain, they're something like $40k Pop in a G50 and a 3.6L and you'd have a fun track car with no passenger-car compromises.

http://project917.itgo.com/

[82SC]

Well for those who are intersted...RUF said they cannot sell the roll cage...TRECup is very correct...they said it was extensive and needed to be welded to the body...

But I cannot imagine cutting up tubing and fitting it would be SO pricey...I guess I do not have enough experience with building race cars....

I was imagining I could make a template out of thick wooden dowels get tubing cut, following the template...take it to a local weld shop and have them weld it into place according to my specs....

would this even be acceptable for the racing clubs that require roll cages...or this just another case of CPPA ....maybe I am underestimating the science of building and installing a roll cage...it does save your life after all....

[TRE Cup]

You will have a ton of "fun"building your own cage. Working in three dimensions, you will quickly learn how 1/8" too much cut on one end yields you 2" of incorrect offset on the other. I suppose you could also find a willing muffler shop to prototype parts of it , in throw away tubing, too. Bring LOTS of beer!

[dtw]

Well, OK, I'll bite. I'm also building my dream car. In brief:
-9 and 11" steel flares, '73 RSR bodywork.
-Heavy torsion bars, Al arms, Bilstein sports, adjustable sways, SC brakes with ducting up front.
-four point bar (for the first few years, anyway)
-Fresh 2.4E until I learn how to keep the ass behind me at speed (translation: until I save money for the 300hp 3.6 of my dreams). Motor goodies: Crane ignition/spark, big fender mount cooler.
-Interior: Black spartan trim & seats. Haven't decided on seats yet but probably gotta have leather, big bolsters, adjustment, and low weight. (I know, good luck). Potential rice: white face gauges with GP blue trim rings.
-Exterior: This is up in the air. I'd been sold on GP White with GP blue accents. I've even already purchased the blue graphics set. Now I'm really starting to like the opposite scheme: blue car with white accents. I think it would look much more striking, and accentuate the curves a bit more than the white. Thoughts?

And Jamie, if you're rolling your eyes and shaking your head right now: I actually went into the garage last night and ran the grinder for an hour.

[katigbr]

Here's my version of my 50/50 road/track car. It's nearly done mechanically and just finishing up the body.

72 T tub
3.6 w/chip and headers , b&b oil cooler in the front (RS Spoiler) (no cool collar yet) currently with SuperTrapps (I know, I know, too ricey. I'm running out of time but I will be fabricating the plumbing for the Dansk 2in-2out that I have.)


930 brakes front and back with 23mm master cylinder
Pagid Orange pads
15x7 and 15x8 Fuchs running Toyo Proxes RA-1 205/50 and 225/50
915 tranny with zf 80% LSD and re-geared, thinking about adding the Robotek shifter gate.
Rear Carrera flares

bilstein sport shocks front and back
Sander engineering torsion bars 22f/31b
Aluminum rear trailing arms
Adjustable rear spring plates
Smart-racing monoballs inserts front and back
TRG 22mm anti-sway bars front and back
Aj-USA strut bar



I went with a safety designs bolt-in cage. I probably would have gone with OMP or Autopower for cost savings next time round.
Sparco Evo seats
Schroth 6 point harnesses
RS Interior

I've got about another 3 weeks of work left. First DE in the Great White North is in May. I'll send pics as it gets closer to completion.

Rick

[Bill Verburg]

Rick, Looks great ! Where did you get the cad plated rotors?

[katigbr]

Bill,
These were via the great Steve Weiner at Rennsport. He helped me sort out the brakes and suspension upgrades.

Rick

[Jack Olsen]

Well done, Rick. I like how you think.

Any car that brings the work of those two Steves together (Timmins and Weiner) is a very cool project.

[katigbr]

Jack,
Thanks. This project came about due to the "bad" influence of this board and folks like you, Thom and Bill. You guys were having way too much fun for me not to join in the insanity. You guys paved the way. Thanks. It has been a long 6 months in a very cold garage. I'm starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel. I'll be posting pics and engine .wav files (hopefully) in a week or two.

The tragic part is that I've started reading Juan's posts and that turbo thing is starting to intrigue me......

Rick

[Ray B]

I'm getting the race bug looking at this thread. Actually I've had it for a while. Thought about getting a 944 on the cheap for a auto-x/ DE car to begin with. I want to keep it street legal to avoid the trailer, tow vehicle, etc.. I know that a 911 is much more durable (and to my liking) than a 944. So... what do you guys think about a 74-77 2.7 car (with proper upgrades). These cars have such a bad reputation i'm thinking a can pick up a "cosmetically challenged" one for about the same price as a 944. I'm thinking this may be a more sensible way to quell this itch rather than going with the "dream car" that I dump a ton of $$ into and sell a year later. Thoughts??