911 converted to mid engine?

[kholm]

Has anyone ever heard of modifying a 911 into a 914 of sorts? My idea is to turn my engine/transaxle drive train around so the engine is now in front of the transaxle. I realize I will need to flip the ring gear in the 915 trans. Anything I need to watch out for when cutting out the back seat area? The second part of this fantasy is to change the torsion bar suspension into coil over suspension from a Boxster. I think this will work well, as part of if not all of the torsion bar tube will be removed when cutting out the back seat. Thanks for reading this posting, hope to hear from some of the experts.

Ken Holm

[Racerbvd]

Fabcar built one..

Alex Job Racing

1996 would include a very interesting program, with a Fabcar built, mid engine, 911 bodied and powered car. The car was driven by Hurley Haywood and Tom Hessert and won at the Watkins Glenn 6 Hours. 1997 was the first year Alex Job Racing was involved in the Team Seattle program. This was an association between AJR and a group of Seattle business men, intended to help raise money for the Children's Hospital of Seattle . Money was pledged based on the performance of the cars in the race. The first year only had one car involved. The program was continued in 1998 and 1999. The total amount raised during the program was approximately a half a million dollars.

[efhughes3]

Must not have been a resounding success...or did Porsche "kill" it? Short-lived program.

[Racerbvd]

The GT1 was the Porsche mid engine 911 and it was very successful.

[Flieger]

The Fabcar car worked very well. I just don't think it was legal for much but the top classes, though, and so the GT1 supplanted it. The Fabcar car had dual A-arm suspension as well.

[mcaterino]

One such conversion in progress: The 1968 Cayman Project

[efhughes3]

I'm aware of the GT1, but I wonder why more 911's weren't converted? The way for privateer race teams to get on Porsche's bad side, or were there fundamental problems? The mid-engine makes sense, obviously, and it doesn't seem so ludicrous to make that conversion-you just don't hear of any others.

[Flieger]

Here is some reading for y'all:

Moving The Engine Forward and Down

Fabcar 993

[Flieger]

Originally Posted by efhughes3

I'm aware of the GT1, but I wonder why more 911's weren't converted? The way for privateer race teams to get on Porsche's bad side, or were there fundamental problems? The mid-engine makes sense, obviously, and it doesn't seem so ludicrous to make that conversion-you just don't hear of any others.

You wonder why more were not converted? Well, it is not a simple job. You are basically building your own special tube frame race car at that point, so I think most would just move up to a proper race car like a 962 because it just makes more sense. Less work and money to just buy a good race car already rather than try to overcome the 911's inherent defficiencies.

Basically, there will always be compromises making a street car into a race car. At some point there is no street car left and a mid-engine 911 really isn't a 911 anymore. It is even less a 911 than a 935 I would say. It just becomes a (very cool) silhouette racing car. At that point I am not attached to the 911 body. I would rather have one of those 917 replicas or a 550 spyder.

[efhughes3]

This would have been no tougher than some low production prototypes.

[Flieger]

For the factory to build, yes, which they did. For a private entrant...

[kholm]

Hey, thanks for all the replies. Lots to think about.

Take care Ken

[fred cook]

A friend of mine once put a 455 Toronado engine and gearbox in a Corvair Coupe body. It was a mid engine mount, the engine taking the place of the rear seats. With limited room for rear tires, it was impossible to use full throttle from a start but once it hooked up, the acceleration was pretty phenomenal. Even with a fabricated firewall between the new engine compartment and the front seats it was really too noisy/loud to carry on a conversation. Another idea that looked better on paper than worked in reality!

[RSBob]

When the 914-6s were unleashed on the track, much to the dismay of Dr. Porsche, they spanked the flagship 911s. They were quickly withdrawn as to not tarnish the company's cash cow not to be seen again.

I own both and they are completely different driving experiences. Where a 911 can be hammered through a corner with the proper technique, the middy simply corners like it is on rails.

Why go to all the effort to convert a 911 when there are plenty of 914-6s out there? Sure they look like a turd, but man can they run.

[Racerbvd]

A buddy of mine had Fabcar build a 996 in midengine config (help is a engineer and a good friend of the owner of Fabcar) thanks help was building a 928S4 engine for. It was a very trick 996, but help sold the roller to someone with deep pocket in Saudi Arabia before help finished it.

[Joe Bob]

Originally Posted by fred cook

A friend of mine once put a 455 Toronado engine and gearbox in a Corvair Coupe body. It was a mid engine mount, the engine taking the place of the rear seats. With limited room for rear tires, it was impossible to use full throttle from a start but once it hooked up, the acceleration was pretty phenomenal. Even with a fabricated firewall between the new engine compartment and the front seats it was really too noisy/loud to carry on a conversation. Another idea that looked better on paper than worked in reality!

Was that the one with a fake steamer's trunk in the back seat as an engine cover?

[giovanni86]

you can add an aerodinamic (?) zagato-style tail

[Flieger]

I am not sure of your point. How does the Zagato tail go with the subject of a mid-engine 911? The 911 tail is already a fastback. The Zagato tail is higher (so less reduction in static pressure on the top surface, which is good) and has the Kamm cut which is a good aerodynamic compromise as far as length (and fiberglass weight) vs. drag goes.

The 911 shape can already accomodate an engine in the middle. The engine just goes under glass like a Ferrari.

[giovanni86]

I am not sure of your point. How does the Zagato tail go with the subject of a mid-engine 911? The 911 tail is already a fastback. The Zagato tail is higher (so less reduction in static pressure on the top surface, which is good) and has the Kamm cut which is a good aerodynamic compromise as far as length (and fiberglass weight) vs. drag goes.

The 911 shape can already accomodate an engine in the middle. The engine just goes under glass like a Ferrari.

I'm joking

but I think would be possible to "cut" the rear of a mid-engine 911 just behind the wheels... I do not know if that will improve aerodinamic efficiency

[Flieger]

I think you could fit a 911 engine inside the ALFA tail as it is, behind the rear axle.