Engine Start issue...

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by jrnicl3

Here is a picture I took to explain what I meant by "cut".

jrnicl3,

It's difficult to see clearly what the 'cut' really looks like. Is the hose cut and leaking fuel? It looks like the outer cover of the hose is spliced open. Got another shot of the hose (with a better focused shot)? Thanks.

Tony

[Bob Kontak]

I bet this is the part. I am not sure what you call that fitting (barb?) but I don't think the end shown as the "cut" is cut. Find the hose downstream of this connector and post a pic. It is the main artery feeding the fuel distributor.

Edit - Cripes - now I see the cut/split hose in your pic - I was focused on the male end fitting.

[Bob Kontak]

Sorry - here is the pic

[j911brick]

The hose is not cut. Its only the protective rubber sheath. Its a non issue and you can peal the sheath off if you like.

[Bob Kontak]

It do need to be connected to the line to the engine though.

[Gunter]

Originally Posted by jrnicl3

I did what you said as followed and I could not hear any hiss and squeal:

I found out that the fuel line next to the fuel pump is cut.

The picture you posted shows a line that's nowhere near the fuel pump and it isn't cut.

That is probably the reason that the fuel never reached the injector. Even if I turn the ignition, no gas is coming through the line.

So how to test if the fuel pump is really operating properly?

Easy to do. Get the Bentley SC Repair Manual and follow instructions on page 249-11. It's 30 and 87a, NOT 87!

I did replace the pump with a new one.

What make and type did you get? Bosch? Pierburg? With internal or external check valve?

Please, a more precise description of your procedure for trouble-shooting would make it easier to help you.

Will you get the Bentley?

[Patronus]

It is possible that the control pressure is way out but that won't happen all by itself from sitting in a barn for 4 years.

The fact that the car starts when given quickstart means it has spark and the plug wires are in correctly etc.

Sounds to me like the fuel doesn't reach the injectors. Bridge terminals 87a and 30 on the fuel pump relay and when you turn the ignition on the fuel pump will start pumping. If you don't hear that, your fuel pump is not pumping fuel.
If you hear it working, do what they guys said above. Lift up the fuel flap inside the air box and hear whether the injectors start singing.

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by Patronus

It is possible that the control pressure is way out but that won't happen all by itself from sitting in a barn for 4 years.

The fact that the car starts when given quickstart means it has spark and the plug wires are in correctly etc.

Sounds to me like the fuel doesn't reach the injectors. Bridge terminals 87 and 30 on the fuel pump relay and when you turn the ignition on the fuel pump will start pumping. If you don't hear that, your fuel pump is not pumping fuel.
If you hear it working, do what they guys said above. Lift up the fuel flap inside the air box and hear whether the injectors start singing.

Patronus,

The terminals should be 87a & 30 to do the test you suggested. Not 87 & 30, otherwise the starter will run even with the engine running and could result to catastrophe. HTH.

Tony

[Patronus]

Tony, you're right. Thanks for pointing it out. Fixed it in my post.

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by Patronus

Tony, you're right. Thanks for pointing it out. Fixed it in my post.

Patronus,

We all make mistakes and learn from each other's thoughts. BTW, I'm about to make a post to correct a major mistake I believe was correct and strongly believed that I was correct until I made an investigation to make my point. It turned out that I was incorrect in my assumptions. To commit a blunder and admit it, is a virtue. Refusal to accept your mistake is outrageous. Please continue to participate and share your knowledge with us. Thanks.

Tony

[Bob Kontak]

The jumper-the-relay procedure means to jumper the relay sockets and not the relay itself.

Tony and I went through this a month or so back. He did not pound on me too hard, but hard enough that I will never forget that piece of info. :-)

[Patronus]

The procedure according to the factory workshop manual is actually to take an old relay and bridge terminals 87a and 30 inside the relay. Hence my wording. However bridging the sockets is easy so that is what I also do.

[Bob Kontak]

I will check my factory manuals as I remember seeing that. Must be something I am doing in practice that deviates from the correct procedure.

[Bob Kontak]

Here it is - loud and proud. Trust me, on an 1980 and 1981, doing this turns the starter. There must be some differences in circuitry.

Step 5 says to turn the key to on.

[jrnicl3]

Originally Posted by jrnicl3

Here is a picture I took to explain what I meant by "cut".

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

Here it is - loud and proud. Trust me, on an 1980 and 1981, doing this turns the starter. There must be some differences in circuitry.

Step 5 says to turn the key to on.

where is terminal 87a and 30?

[Bob Kontak]

ok - do the bridging of the sockets with a wire, please (until we figure out why the SC's act different than 2.7's using this procedure)

Go to the relay closest to the driver on the battery side of the front luggage compartment. It is probably red.

Pull the relay out (it can only go back in one way) and put on your reading glasses and look at the pin side of the relay. See the terminal numbers? See 87a and 30? Match the pins to the sockets - more than once to be sure - and place (stuff the bare copper ends) a wire between both sockets. Take your car out of gear (heh heh) and turn the ignition key to on.

The fuel pump will run.

[j911brick]

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

ok - do the bridging of the sockets with a wire, please (until we figure out why the SC's act different than 2.7's using this procedure)
.

On the SCs I have owned and worked on the fuel pump relay (red) is in the front trunk, all the way to the back. the turbo uses two black ones in the front trunk, and a red one in engine compartment (total of three).

[Bob Kontak]

Hey James - see my post 31 (and feedback) . The factory says to jumper the relay pins on the FP relay (for a 76) but if you do that to an 80 it turns the starter. It is an anomaly that I have not figured out. That's what the factory manual pics are for.

I do have a question for you - off topic and not critical - my pal has an 89 930 - all of his relays are red - a whole row of round red relays in the luggage compartment - where my 81 only has the FP relay being red. Any idea as to why?

[jeffs9146]

First you should be able to hear your fuel pump running, and you should be getting fuel to the engine! If not deal with that first! Then move on to the vacume leaks!

I have an '83 SC motor that I have been working on bringing back after 14 years of sitting on a palet!

The number one problem I have run into is "VACUME" leaks! I am now at the point that the car will run and idol but still has vacume leaks. If I spray carb cleaner or either it will run great but if I don't it trys to find idol and hunts around! I still have a leak but it now runs and sounds great, everything I have done so far has progressed to the positive which was vacume leak related!!

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by Patronus

The procedure according to the factory workshop manual is actually to take an old relay and bridge terminals 87a and 30 inside the relay. Hence my wording. However bridging the sockets is easy so that is what I also do.

Patronus,

If you use an old working relay and bridged terminals 87a & 30, turning the ignition switch ON position would result to STARTER cranking!!!!!! What you need is an old non-working FP relay to make it work. Why? Here is the reason:

Terminals 87a-30 are NC (normally closed) terminals.
Terminals 87-30 are NO (normally open) terminals.

When your turn the ignition switch to ON position (not start), power is sent to terminal 87a and 86 (bridged at the socket side). The coil would be energized if 85 is grounded. Thus the normally closed terminals would open and the NO (normally open) terminals would close: 87-30

If you bridge terminals 87a & 30................terminal 30 is already connected to 87 after you turned the ignition switch. This is how the power is transmitted: 87a-------30------87 (ignition switch @ ON, 87a & 30 bridged).

BTW, '76-'83 have basically the same wiring configuration except for very minor difference but not in the FP circuit. For the sake of demonstration, try it on your car and keep us posted.

Tony