Engine Start issue...

[jrnicl3]

Originally Posted by Gunter

It drags on mostly because the OP doesn't make it clear what he's doing or what's been done or how to describe things correctly or give a timely response.

It's not unique.

A lot of threads start with asking for help, give confusing details, don't follow advise and when the problems ever get fixed, don't bother to tell the rest how it was solved.

Gunter,

Sorry, I have a rough schedule and work on the car at night when I get a chance. I see so many other topics on my thread. I can't help that.

I am still dealing with the issue. I actually did the fuel pump test by bridging 30 and 87a and turned on the key and did not hear the fuel pump running. I went under the car and made a straight 12v connection to the fuel pump and it did run. so the fuel pump(since it's new) is working. I do believe that there is a connection issue with the fuse box area.

Also there is a black square fuse with about 5 flat pins. what is that?


Thanks.

[T77911S]

sorry guys, did not mean to sound so rough, just busting your nads a little.

check for voltage at pin 30 of the relay socket. if that is good, you have cut your power problem in half.
next check for voltage at the FP.

[Bob Kontak]

That is a good point on the "30" socket. Would you put a wire into the socket and then insert the relay and test the voltage on the other end of the wire once you turn the key to on? Socket 30 gets no juice until the relay provides it through 87a so that would be my guess.

Also jrnicl3 - I can get you diagrams. You need them?

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by jrnicl3

Also there is a black square fuse with about 5 flat pins. what is that?Thanks.

Location/picture?

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by jrnicl3

Gunter,

Sorry, I have a rough schedule and work on the car at night when I get a chance. I see so many other topics on my thread. I can't help that.

I am still dealing with the issue. I actually did the fuel pump test by bridging 30 and 87a and turned on the key and did not hear the fuel pump running. I went under the car and made a straight 12v connection to the fuel pump and it did run. so the fuel pump(since it's new) is working. I do believe that there is a connection issue with the fuse box area.

Also there is a black square fuse with about 5 flat pins. what is that?


Thanks.

jrnicl3,

Please do these tests so we could help you determine the culprit/s.

FP relay socket check (relay removed):

a). Ignition switch OFF:
87a........no power
87..........no power
86..........no power
85..........no power; this should have a ground reading.
30..........no power; this should have a ground reading.

b). Ignition switch ON:
87a........has power
87..........no power
86..........has power
85..........no power; this should have a ground reading.
30..........no power; this should have a ground reading.

FP relay test:
87a------30..............has continuity (normally closed).
87--------30.............no continuity (normally open)
86--------85.............has continuity (connected). When power is applied to these terminals, the coil is energized resulting 87a-30 to OPEN and 87-30 to CLOSE.

Additional test (ignition SW off):
To confirm that the AFS (air flow switch) is working, terminal #85 (FP relay socket terminal) should be grounded when the air plate sensor is down. And #85 would loose ground contact when sensor plate is lifted up.

Perform these basic electrical troubleshooting tests to get to the bottom of the problem/s. Otherwise, we would be all guessing at this point. If you have any question, just ask. Keep us posted.

Tony

[Bob Kontak]

What Tony says looks overwhelming but is simple if taken one step at a time. You need a multi meter - not even a fancy one. Just one that provides AC/DC voltage tests and ohms (resistance / continuity) Don't let it blow you away. It is "nuttin" Just time and patience.

[jrnicl3]

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

That is a good point on the "30" socket. Would you put a wire into the socket and then insert the relay and test the voltage on the other end of the wire once you turn the key to on? Socket 30 gets no juice until the relay provides it through 87a so that would be my guess.

Also jrnicl3 - I can get you diagrams. You need them?

Yes Bob, Please get me the diagrams. That will be so helpful. Thanks!!!

[Gunter]

Originally Posted by jrnicl3

Gunter,

Sorry, I have a rough schedule and work on the car at night when I get a chance. I see so many other topics on my thread. I can't help that.

I am still dealing with the issue. I actually did the fuel pump test by bridging 30 and 87a and turned on the key and did not hear the fuel pump running. I went under the car and made a straight 12v connection to the fuel pump and it did run. so the fuel pump(since it's new) is working. I do believe that there is a connection issue with the fuse box area.

Hard to say from a distance what state your car is in or what may have been changed by PO's re: wiring. Clear pictures of the fuse blocks and engine bay would help



Also there is a black square fuse with about 5 flat pins. what is that?

Sounds more like a relay, not fuse. Picture of the item and location is needed!

Thanks.

Originally Posted by jrnicl3

Yes Bob, Please get me the diagrams. That will be so helpful. Thanks!!!

Diagrams are available right here on Pelican in the Tech section. Click on "Porsche" on top and find the diagrams on the upper left.

Also, the Bentley has the SC electrical diagrams in the back.
I know that the Bentley SC Repair Manual would be the best way to learn and fix all kinds of issues and answer many of your questions. Once you look through it, you'll understand why it's a must have for SC owners.

Once the pump runs, all kinds of other things will have to be done and all the answers on how to are in the Manual. Plus it's so much easier to refer to pages in the manual to answer specific questions you will have in the future.

I'll ask again: Will you get the Bentley? And if not, why not?

[jrnicl3]

Originally Posted by Gunter

Diagrams are available right here on Pelican in the Tech section. Click on "Porsche" on top and find the diagrams on the upper left.

Also, the Bentley has the SC electrical diagrams in the back.
I know that the Bentley SC Repair Manual would be the best way to learn and fix all kinds of issues and answer many of your questions. Once you look through it, you'll understand why it's a must have for SC owners.

Once the pump runs, all kinds of other things will have to be done and all the answers on how to are in the Manual. Plus it's so much easier to refer to pages in the manual to answer specific questions you will have in the future.

I'll ask again: Will you get the Bentley? And if not, why not?

Yes , I will get it right now.

[jrnicl3]

The fuel pump is fixed and now when I trurn the ignition on, I can hear a high peak noise from the rear engine and The car won't cranck anymore.

also, The signal stopped working. The full light works. Radio works,

Any idea?

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by jrnicl3

The fuel pump is fixed and now when I trurn the ignition on, I can hear a high peak noise from the rear engine and The car won't cranck anymore.

also, The signal stopped working. The full light works. Radio works,

Any idea?

jrnicl3,

You're making a simple troubleshooting procedure into a complex one by not giving us a better feedback!!!!! You are our eyes in looking into the problem/s and we don't know what you have done to fix the FP, if you ever fixed it!!!! Let's go back a little and re-wind.

1). Tell us something how you fixed the FP. Is the FP delivering fuel when you lift the AFS with ignition SW @ ON?

2). The high pitch noise is coming from the CDI. Hope you have a CDI (???).

3). When you say 'car won't crank', do you mean the starter won't do anything? Have you checked your battery and terminals including ground points?

4). Ignore the turn signal problem at the moment. You don't need it to make the engine run. Let's take it one step at a time.

Did you find out why the FP was not getting power? Have you done some of the suggestions given to you?

If you want to fix the problem, help us understand what's going on. We don't know what you did so far. I gave you a simple step by step procedure to isolate the problem and we don't get anything back. Is there a problem why you don't response to the instructions offered to you?

Tony

[stormcrow]

James

If you turn the key on and the fuel pump runs without the engine turning over something is wired wrong - the fuel pump should come on only when the engine is turning over. That is a safety precaution so that the fuel pump doesn't run when the enigne is not running.

I briefly read the thread because there was too much to say about the problem. So, look at your fuses and make sure all terminals are connected and all the correct wires are on each terminal.

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by boyt911sc

jrnicl3,

You're making a simple troubleshooting procedure into a complex one by not giving us a better feedback!!!!! You are our eyes in looking into the problem/s and we don't know what you have done to fix the FP, if you ever fixed it!!!! Let's go back a little and re-wind.

1). Tell us something how you fixed the FP. Is the FP delivering fuel when you lift the AFS with ignition SW @ ON?

2). The high pitch noise is coming from the CDI. Hope you have a CDI (???).

3). When you say 'car won't crank', do you mean the starter won't do anything? Have you checked your battery and terminals including ground points?

4). Ignore the turn signal problem at the moment. You don't need it to make the engine run. Let's take it one step at a time.


Did you find out why the FP was not getting power? Have you done some of the suggestions given to you?

If you want to fix the problem, help us understand what's going on. We don't know what you did so far. I gave you a simple step by step procedure to isolate the problem and we don't get anything back. Is there a problem why you don't response to the instructions offered to you?

Tony

+100!

Please, don't get offended but you need to tell us what you are doing, one step at a time! You have to respond to the excellent suggestions/procedures offered by Tony and others to let us all know what you are doing. Even if you choose not to follow any advice given, you need to tell us that and then explain what you did instead. Seriously, throw us a bone now and then. We're here to help but only you can make that happen.

[jrnicl3]

Originally Posted by boyt911sc

jrnicl3,

You're making a simple troubleshooting procedure into a complex one by not giving us a better feedback!!!!! You are our eyes in looking into the problem/s and we don't know what you have done to fix the FP, if you ever fixed it!!!! Let's go back a little and re-wind.

1). Tell us something how you fixed the FP. Is the FP delivering fuel when you lift the AFS with ignition SW @ ON?

2). The high pitch noise is coming from the CDI. Hope you have a CDI (???).

3). When you say 'car won't crank', do you mean the starter won't do anything? have you checked your battery and terminals including ground points?

4). Ignore the turn signal problem at the moment. You don't it to make the engine run. Let's do it one step at a time.

Did you find out why the FP was not getting power? Have you dome some of the suggestions given to you?

If you want to fix the problem, help us understand what's going on. We don't know what you did so far. I gave you a simple step by step procedure to isolate the problem and we don't get anything back. Is there a problem why you don't response to the instructions offered to you?


Tony

1). Tell us something how you fixed the FP.

I had to replace the the fuse #6(counting fuse from left to right) . As soon as I did it I heard the pump running.
and gas was finally coming to the fuel line next to the fuel filter(of course I uncrew it to check the pressure).

Is the FP delivering fuel when you lift the AFS with ignition SW @ ON?
no, I do not hear the fp delivring fuel when you lift the AFS. There is no pressure of anything on that side.


2). The high pitch noise is coming from the CDI. Hope you have a CDI (???).
Yes, it is and here is the CDI:



3). When you say 'car won't crank', do you mean the starter won't do anything? have you checked your battery and terminals including ground points?

What I mean by 'car won't crank' is that the starter won't do anything.

Yes the battery has been fully charged at Autozone.

What do you mean by teminals and ground points ?

[jrnicl3]

I took more pictures of the fuse area

What's the following fuse? How many wires should be connected to it?

Where should the wire with the white end be connected to?

[ossiblue]

What your picture shows is an add-on relay set-up, not a fuse. You will need to find out where each of the colored wires come from and where they lead before you can figure out what it's for. Were any wires to that relay disturbed when you were fixing the FP? That could be a relay for the starter and that may be the cause for your failure to "crank", but you need to be sure of the wiring. Let us know if you disturbed that set-up in any way, or if it is exactly like it was when the starter was working.

[Gunter]

Looks like a rusty relay which may not even work? Add-on relay for starter?
Follow the wires to see what it's suppost to activate?
Some of the wiring and stuff is not original and it's hard to say why or what for?

As soon as you get the Bentley, go to page 971-2 and check each fuse for correct size from #1 to #21.

Then, you can follow the wiring from the starter solenoid back to the ignition switch.

[Bob Kontak]

See Will Ferch's post #13 in this thread. That relay is probably for upgraded headlights and has nothing to do with your engine.

Fuse box layout help

I am going to hold back on sending the diagrams (sorry for the delay) as there is value in all of us being on the same page - meaning - obtain the Bentley manual.

I guarantee if you keep us advised and hang with us, even if you are frustrated, we will get you going.

[jrnicl3]

Originally Posted by Gunter

Looks like a rusty relay which may not even work? Add-on relay for starter?
Follow the wires to see what it's suppost to activate?
Some of the wiring and stuff is not original and it's hard to say why or what for?

As soon as you get the Bentley, go to page 971-2 and check each fuse for correct size from #1 to #21.

Then, you can follow the wiring from the starter solenoid back to the ignition switch.

Wow, Just got the Bentley Manual. Now I need to spend some time to understand how to read the diagram and start troubleshooting.

[jrnicl3]

So, My wife was helping me out. she was turning the key on and I was in the back listening to what was going on. I could heat a "click" noise from the black relay and also a humming noise from the CDI unit. But the car will not crank. Won't start.

I have no clue about which step to take. Should I replace the coil, distribution cap, the CDI unit all together?

I have the bentley book and does not know where to start.

Thanks for your help