3.6 conversion checklist help

[chaw704352]

Just purchased a 3.6 Varioram out of a 1996 to put in my 1977 911s. I have done my research, but wanted to see if I have my list straight and if I am missing anything for the conversion. I am planning on doing basic maintenance as well (put that in another thread). Currently, my conversion to-do list is as follows:

1. Flywheel (going PMS conversion)
2. New clutch (Sachs Power Clutch, getting kit from PMS)
3. Power Steer block off
4. Oil tube conversion (Rothsport)
5. RSR fan pulley adapter (Rothsport)
6. Crank pulley conversion (Rothsport)
7. Engine to oil tank lines (can I use the 2.7 lines)? What are my options other than the expensive PMS solution)
8. Adapters to original oil tank?
9. Wire harness (PMS)
10. Using 993 engine tin and cutting it to fit (shouldn't have to cut much with the pulley conversion, right?)
11. Have 993 exhaust (less muffler). Can I get an aftermarket muffler to fit?
12. Oil catch can?
13. Have 1996 DME. I suppose I need something without the Drive Block? Working on options on this one.
14. Air box (new filter and cut the lid to fit? Or is that a bad idea?)
15. New studs to mount to my 915
16. Throttle cable (should I do PMS, Timmins, or make my own)? Sounds like PMS is the straight-forward and expensive solution.
17. Keep seeing people do fuel lines as well. Can I just use the current fuel pump, or do I need the 993 w new lines?

Wow now that it is listed out I hope you guys don't have much more to add because that is getting large. It took me 3 hours just to get my crank pulley off this weekend (didn't have a flywheel and an impact wrench wouldn't budge so I had to fabricate a more sturdy solution to the normal flywheel lock).

What expensive and time consuming items am I missing?

I appreciate any advice I can get. Thanks in advance Pelicanites.

Craig

[PcarPhil]

I've also got a '77 but with a 964 3.6.

1. Ok.
2. Ok.
3. Ok PMS or Rothsport. I like the Rothsport piece better since it doesn't have a logo etched in it.
4. Ok. Nice piece.
5. Ok.
6. Ok.
7. Use an early ? shaped hose.
8. Original rubber S hose attaches to Rothsport oil hose conversion.
9. Ok.
10. Have fun. I suggest using the 2.7 tins and 993 tins. Cut/paste together and make work. This will be your best bet. Also use original 2.7 engine console and crossmember.
11. M&K sells direct fit mufflers on a case by case basis.
12. If you want to.
13. Rennsport Systems.
14. Sure, or cone filter attached to HFM.
15. Reuse 2.7 studs.
16. PMS or Lokar.
17. 2.7 CIS pump works great. Rework fuel lines in engine compartment to use 3.2/964/993 filter. Len (BoxsterGT ???) has nice affordable pieces for this.

Your parts list looks pretty complete. Also consider getting Wevo engine and trans mounts. I hope your 915 transmission is in good shape. Hopefully you have a LSD.

What are you doing for additional oil cooling?

Good luck and have fun! It's a lot of work but man they are fun when done and running correctly!

[chaw704352]

Thanks Kaefer,

My plan for cooling will be a front mounted cooler (likely a Setrab or Mocal) at a minimum (since I'm planning an RSR fiberglass bumper anyway). I'll then later add a passenger fender mounted carrera-style cooler if the front mounted cooler can't handle the Texas heat. I still need to spend a good hour or two wrestling the hard oil lines (got the trombone off, but the thermostat attachments are being a pain).

My 915 is in need of a rebuild (1st gear is not so good), so I'll have to upgrade it. Plan is to do that once I send the car off to paint here in a few months. I really hadn't planned on adding an LSD. It might be better to just find a transmission that's already upgraded and sell mine off.

[PcarPhil]

I agree - start with the single front mount oil cooler (with ducting) and go from there. The key is airflow across the cooler. A front mount is great for airflow.

Personally I wouldn't want to run a 3.6 with a non-lsd 915. I feel the lsd helps keep the trans together, not to mention the benefits of traction and braking stability. One wheel peel will get old quick!

[chaw704352]

I have all of my maintenance items purchased. Just need to finish sealing up the cam and chain housing (trying to eliminate this dirty plastic box issues that plagues 964 & 993's). I might have this done by a mechanic.

Time to start purchasing conversion items!

Biggest issue I see right now is this stupid 1996 DME. I am missing the 88-pin wiring loom as well. I would love to get a 1995 DME and loom if I can find one....these are pricey, though.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by chaw704352

I have all of my maintenance items purchased. Just need to finish sealing up the cam and chain housing (trying to eliminate this dirty plastic box issues that plagues 964 & 993's). I might have this done by a mechanic.

Time to start purchasing conversion items!

Biggest issue I see right now is this stupid 1996 DME. I am missing the 88-pin wiring loom as well. I would love to get a 1995 DME and loom if I can find one....these are pricey, though.

You have 2 fairly large issues
1) '96 DME is not only OBD2, but doesn't even have the replaceable chip that the other have. If it is an immobilizer DME it will not run w/o the immobilizer wired in. W/ the others, ie OBD1 from a US '95 or ROW '95-98 or OBD2 US '97-98 the chip can be either reprogrammed or replaced eliminating the immobilizer issue.

2) you will need a harness to connect the engine to the DME and rest of the car. You engine is set up for the 88pin OBD2 harness.

It might be better to just convert the whole thing to Motec and be done w/ it.

[AirKuhl]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

You have 2 fairly large issues
1) '96 DME is not only OBD2, but doesn't even have the replaceable chip that the other have. If it is an immobilizer DME it will not run w/o the immobilizer wired in. W/ the others, ie OBD1 from a US '95 or ROW '95-98 or OBD2 US '97-98 the chip can be either reprogrammed or replaced eliminating the immobilizer issue.

2) you will need a harness to connect the engine to the DME and rest of the car. You engine is set up for the 88pin OBD2 harness.

It might be better to just convert the whole thing to Motec and be done w/ it.

On my car with a '96 3.6, the builder ditched the Varioram (not needed since the car is so much lighter) in order to use a '95 DME and not worry about OBD-II, immobilizer, non-upgradeable chips, etc. I added a Steve Wong chip and it runs great. All depends on pricing and what you are after.

One bit of feedback on the PMS throttle cable, it works great and is an easy retrofit, but the throttle pull is way too light for my taste. And it got worse when I installed a heavy Rennline aluminum gas pedal. Any ideas out there on how to get a stiffer throttle pull?

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by AirKuhl

On my car with a '96 3.6, the builder ditched the Varioram (not needed since the car is so much lighter) in order to use a '95 DME and not worry about OBD-II, immobilizer, non-upgradeable chips, etc. I added a Steve Wong chip and it runs great. All depends on pricing and what you are after.

One bit of feedback on the PMS throttle cable, it works great and is an easy retrofit, but the throttle pull is way too light for my taste. And it got worse when I installed a heavy Rennline aluminum gas pedal. Any ideas out there on how to get a stiffer throttle pull?

v-ram or non-v-ram is not the issue, it's extremely easy to go between them. The engine harness is set up for both, If he converts to a '95 55 pin harness that is great but the harness and DME must match.

As I said the issue is he does not have a harness to go from the engine to the DME and the DME he has is going to be an issue as well.

[Jack Olsen]

Eleven years down the road, I still LOVE my stock 3.6.




5. RSR fan pulley adapter (Rothsport) You can also get their single-sheave crank pulley. Saves some weight. Also look into Rennline's reinforcement for the engine crossmember. You can see the welds on mine in this picture.



11. Have 993 exhaust (less muffler). Can I get an aftermarket muffler to fit? Any corner muffler shop should be able to do this without a problem. I have a 2-in-2-out Magnaflow with mine. I love it. Muffler was $95 from Amazon. Install/connectors/tailpipes came in at right around $150.



14. Air box (new filter and cut the lid to fit? Or is that a bad idea?) I cut the box and it works great -- none of the worries about the dirt getting through a K&N or the hassle of re-oiling and cleaning the filter.

[BoxsterGT]

Jack-

Just wondering, did you do anything to add capacity of your 72 oil tank?

I was advised this tank is too small for high HP motors.

Len

[Jack Olsen]

Yes. TRE Motorsports took the existing tank, made a belt cut, and then added a ~2" extension to increase the tank's capacity by a couple of quarts.

[Jim Williams]

Several years ago, I did a 964 3.6 transplant into a '78 SC.

See here.964 transplant

Without going in to all your mods, I just offer the link for your review. I have other photos of the installation of the harness.

I did have some issues with the A/C but finally resolved these. There admittedly is a lot of work in the transplant, but very gratifying to drive.

[midnight911]

If you need to pass smog, here's my example of an exhaust.

[chaw704352]

Spoke with Timmins this week. Not that I doubt him, but it was news to me when he said I would need to bend the engine crossbar, reinforce it and remount the coils to another spot. I thought the 96 993 would bolt up with my Rothsport single pulley conversion (fan and crank).

Anyone else dealt with bending a 993 crossbar?

[arrivederci]

Originally Posted by chaw704352

Spoke with Timmins this week. Not that I doubt him, but it was news to me when he said I would need to bend the engine crossbar, reinforce it and remount the coils to another spot. I thought the 96 993 would bolt up with my Rothsport single pulley conversion (fan and crank).

Anyone else dealt with bending a 993 crossbar?

I have one that I had him modify, which I think basically has the ends bent towards the front of the car by about 1/2" or so. But after going with the single pulley conversion, I *think* I can use an earlier engine mount. To do so, I also modified the engine tins, added gussets to the ends of the early engine mount, and had to get different studs to bolt it up. I haven't done a trial fit on the car (hopefully will do so this weekend) to know how it works. But I'm pretty sure others have gone that route.

[chaw704352]

I don't have an earlier bar. I'll send mine off to him this weekend.

[Jack Olsen]

Rennline sells a support to reinforce the crossmember that can be used to strengthen the piece once it's been bent. (I mention it a second time because my crossmember snapped once with my previous 3.6.)

[Joe Bob]

I would consider KEP flywheel, I would also do some mods on the trans.

[chaw704352]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

You have 2 fairly large issues
1) '96 DME is not only OBD2, but doesn't even have the replaceable chip that the other have. If it is an immobilizer DME it will not run w/o the immobilizer wired in. W/ the others, ie OBD1 from a US '95 or ROW '95-98 or OBD2 US '97-98 the chip can be either reprogrammed or replaced eliminating the immobilizer issue.

2) you will need a harness to connect the engine to the DME and rest of the car. You engine is set up for the 88pin OBD2 harness.

It might be better to just convert the whole thing to Motec and be done w/ it.

Motec looks a little beyond my electronic skillset.

I can get the right harness for $150. Would love to wire in an Immobilizer. Can't seem to find great info on this process in my searches. Anybody done this on a 96?

[JeremyD]

Steve at Rennsport does the driveblock conversions -

Rennsport Systems | Porsche Performance Systems and Support

You can add a spring to the gas pedal to make it more resistent