Please tell me is this looks right/wrong?

[twin plugged targa]

Here are some pics of the distributor (86 3.2).
The problem MUST lie here, as the new cap of less than 20 rough miles now has the locating notch worn already!. Also the cap- plastic is worn around the graphite contact inside!. The graphite contact is staring to wear also. The new (3rd) rotor is chamferring the inside of the cap!!!!.
To do this it must be rising to a point where it tries to push and rotate the cap!!!.
I will definatley need a new cap and rotor again!!!.
But what is causing this?
I looked into the hole, but am not sure what I should be looking for, none of the teeth on the gears look bad to me!
When the dist. was still installed the shaft would rotate a small amount as the 'gadgets' inside would allow it- normal?.
But there was no vertical movement apparent???. I tried twisting and rotating but nothing.
If no one can see anything, what is my next step?.
Jonny W., Warren, Rolund are ya out there?.
hope someone has a clue!




I can post other pics if it helps!
Comments?????
rgds Ben

[Clark Griswald]

I had a similar problem on my '86.

The rotor was not seated all the way down onto the shaft. The result was that the carbon contact wore down, and eventually seized into the cap, the finger that locates the rotor on the shaft was worn as you describe.

This is easy to do on the Carrera because the rotor is a snug fit on the shaft. It can feel like the rotor is on all the way, even though it is not fully seated.

Another telltale sign is to look at the electrodes in the cap. See where they are wearing/arcing. If it riding up way high...then your rotor is not pressed all the way down.

My car ran fine this way for many miles. Then started to run like crap/not at all.

The solution is to get a new cap and rotor, and be damn sure you press that rotor all the way down. Give it a little twist while installing until you feel the finger start to catch, then push it down.

If you suspect it is not an install problem, but instead that it is working its way up, then install it correctly, drive and check every so many miles to see if it is in fact working its way up. Don't remove the rotor to check.

Measure it's height using a ruler, relative to the distributor body.

------------------
Chuck Moreland '86 Cab - "Sparky", '77 Targa - "Sweet Pea"


[This message has been edited by Clark Griswald (edited 06-26-2001).]

[robs]

Just for those Netscape users who cannot follow
links with a space character in it...

Distributor photo 1
Distributor photo 2
Distributor photo 3
Distributor photo 4


[This message has been edited by robs (edited 06-26-2001).]

[twin plugged targa]

Here is the dist. cap and where the dist drops in!


PS this was a new cap!!!.



[This message has been edited by 86ragtop (edited 06-26-2001).]

[twin plugged targa]

Update- purchased yet another dist cap!!!!
AND the wear around the graphite contact is normal!!!!!.
Appears the new caps are machined in that way for some reason?.
My original one was not machined in this way!.
BUT the damage to the detent in the cap allowed it to move/rotate a small amount- enough to change the ingnition?.
Anyhow, test run proved no problems so far!.
Gave her some 'welly' and she performed fine!
The only thing I can NOW sumise, is that I either did not fir the new rotor or cap properley resulting in degradation of both!.
The Original cap contacter was worn giving me weak sparks which maybe were weakened more by a weak system and rain!.
When I finally looked at the dist cap and rotor I guess I fitted either or both badly!.
So..... $1000 for a new rotor! not bad
But at least she runs!.
Now to try and get the idling sorted- minor problem!!!!

[Matt Smith]

From the pics it looks like the endfloat on the distributor is about 1/8th". Woah! It should be next to nothing, or at least is in my early dizzy. You can see the steel thrust washer just hanging out there- it should be firm against the base of the distributor. Grab the drive pinion and see how much it moves in and out.
I had the same problem a while back. The shaft had a similar ammount of endfloat as yours appears to have, causing the rotor to bash the insides of the distributor cap.
I opened it up (you need to remove the drive pinion eventually to fix this, but you can see if it's the problem by removing the other internals including base place first) and saw that the fibre washer between the internal steel thrust washers had broken down, and the distributor housing itself was being worn away internally, allowing the shaft to move up and down. It had worn down a lot, in fact exactly the ammount the 'new' endfloat was. Note, this is different from worn bronze bearings- these allow a sideways movement, not up and down.
The soloution was to remove the drive pinion (had to drill mine out eventually)and machine up an alloy spacer to compensate for the wear and reinstall a new fibre washer and steel thrust washers. You will know it's the problem when you see gunky alluminium and grease shavings under the dizzy base plate- Ouch! This is one of those examples of the fabulous flat six turning it's hand to a bit of informal lathe work on itself....

I could be wrong- I'm only looking at the pics, but if it's not then at least I hope i've drawn some attention to this particular problem!

------------------
'72 911 TE

[Early_S_Man]

Ben,

A long time ago, at least a month ago ... I was wondering about your distributor end play when you mentioned a chewed-up cap, but I assumed one of the wrenches you took it to would check that sort of thing!

Matt is right, intead of 0.001" to 0.002" of end play, you have about 100 times the correct amount!!! If you take that distributor to a machine shop, I'm sure they can correct the problem, but it needs to be corrected, pronto, because abnormal wear is ALREADY showing on the distributor drive gear! Very much more driving, and you will need a complete engine teardown to replace that drive gear inside the crankcase!
------------------
Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa

[This message has been edited by Early_S_Man (edited 06-26-2001).]

[twin plugged targa]

Matt and Warren, thanks for the comeback but I am not sure if the pictures tell the story correct- maybe you are not sseing the parts as they actually are.
Excuse the terminology but,
The there seems no vertical movement in the shaft- definately not 1/8".
The gap I think you see, is the gap between the the bottom of the aluminum shaft and the thin washer looking thing!, but inbetween there is a bearing type spacer- I believe.
The washer or thin part is fixed in place and will not move!. The gears did not appear worn on the dist. gears. As for the internal gears, I am not sure how they should look?.
The original dist cap was not damaged but the graphite contact was worn down after 2 years and about 10,000 miles. The rotor was pitted.

please excuse writing!
As for the idle problem, I removed the O2 sensor cleaned it with electrical cleaner and put it back in and she runs like a charm!.

[Early_S_Man]

Ben,

That shim wassher, and the gear are supposed to be snug, up against the aluminum housing ... what you are calling the bearing ... isn't supposed to be sticking out at all! And the wear pattern on the distributor gear is supposed to be centered, and twice as wide as the pattern on yours!

If there is a dealer within a reasonable distance ... take the distributor to them and get their comments on the matter! I'm dead serious, your distributor is in SERIOUSLY BAD SHAPE!!!

------------------
Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa

[twin plugged targa]

Do you think it is rebuildable or new one needed, would a main dealer do it, or if not who?
Thanks Warren!
Ben
Also I suppose I should not be driving her at all! ?


[This message has been edited by 86ragtop (edited 06-26-2001).]

[Early_S_Man]

Ben,

Yes, I believe it can be fixed, bushings replaced, re-shimmed to proper end-play. It wouldn't surprise me if dealers sent that kind of work out these days ... probably to a motor rebuilding shop that has access to the parts and expertise/experience to do it.

But, it isn't a difficult job, either! Most dealer technicians these days would probably say chunk it and get a new one! That is the current policy and mentality ... the same one behind Bentley's policy of not repairing/rebuilding calipers, CV-joints, or distributors!

------------------
Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa

[twin plugged targa]

Thanks again Warren,
thinking logically about this, if the 'bearing' is below the main body of the dist. then that would indicate the shaft would in fact be dropping 1/8" not raiseing?.
I will try and make sure that this pic is correct/incorrect before driving it anymore!.
But before I go ahead and pull it again, I want to make sure that it is definately not right. I don't know if there is much/any difference in the design of different models of dist.
When it was in place we could not get it to move up or down or sideways at all!.
But as this is serious, I will be cautious and delve into it deeper!.
Thank you for your advice and sorry to sound doubting.
- If I took everyones word as law my (once) trusty wrench would now be stripping down my engine and get another $2,500 out of me!.
Please don't be offended by my actions as you are one of the pillars of this board.

PS cleaning the O2 sensor with electric cleaner, cured the idle fluctuation!.
I did drive her about 10 miles last night to the movies and she did'nt miss a beat!.

[twin plugged targa]

I am going to be away for a week or so,
So if anyone can give me a 100% answer as to whether this unit has 'had it'or not I would appreciate it.
Cannot find anyone at this moment to rebuild it!.
My only option at this point is Pelican P. and a new one at $500 odd!.
If someones Carrera engine is currently in bits, maybe they could have a squint?
Thanks Ben

[roger911s]

Ben, you might put a call into Rudtner's shop in Freeport. If they can't do it, he'll know who can.

[jabb]

Hi Ben

I know you are on LongIsland.... Not sure exactly where you are but there is a Porsche only shop in Nyack NY right by the Tapanze Bridge.
They also sell used Porsche parts... I would think they would have a used distributor for you or can fix yours. Owner of the shop is Rick
http://www.demanmotorsport.com/
Hope this helps

------------------

• Joe A.
• 84 911 Targa
• 75 914/6 3.0

[john walker's workshop]

ben, i have a good distributor if you're interested. normal end play. there's obviously a lot of wear in yours to allow that much gap between the body and the gear.

[Kurt B]

I think it's high time I pull my dist and have a little looky just to make sure.


[This message has been edited by Kurt B (edited 06-27-2001).]

[twin plugged targa]

Thanks Jonnie, and sorry for the hassle - 'Murphy's' and 'sods' law prevelant!.
I have a replacement Distributor on the way from New Jersey! .
Hopefully this is the final chapter in this ignition tale!.
As Kurt said: it's not a bad idea to check this out if you suspect ignition problems!.
The Dist. is easy to get out- thanks for the advice though Kurt!.
Movin- If you have not removed your Distributor I would highly advise it! and check out the 'end float' plus integrity of bearings and 'what not'.
Post a pic if in doubt as I did.

Had I not done that and Warren come to the rescue as always! I would be dead by the side of the road again in a few miles!!!!!

[Matt Smith]

Hey guys, it's not the end of the world if the endfloat's out. You certainly don't need to buy a new distributor if the shaft bearings and everthing else checks out. There is room for shimming in there!
I probably would have done the same as you Ragtop if I'd been through all that hell. But imagine how proud you will be of that nice shiney new unit when you open your engine lid a couple of years down the track and remember how close you actually came to selling that fine machine
You are right about the rotor being 1/8th of an inch (can't believe I'm working in these units!)LOWER. I could see carbon traces and wear below the level of the terminals. I imagine the helical nature of the gears prevents you feeling undue wear in the endplay while the distributor is in situ, so you should take it out to check it. It's only 1 bolt away from freedom, and you have a good excuse to reset your timing again

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'72 911 TE

[964Cab]

Hi,

Anyone have a source for the dist. gear pin ?

Thanks