Weltmeister VS Neatrix bushings

[ivangene]

OK... sorry but I just got the rear Weltmeister PB-004 poly graphite and I am completely dissatisfied with them. There is no way the average Joe at home is going to make these fit without some serious monkey F'in around... the diameters are way off and the thickness is inconsistent and not parallel...

I was able to get mine to "work" but am pretty sure I will end up replacing them again because "I know" they suck...

my question is how do the neatrix fit? are they plug and play... are they stiffer, better then OEM/OE rubber - any squeak (esp fronts from "crush" of the clamshell)

I am doing the fronts now and I have the Weltmeisters here, but am really apprehensive to go tearing into the original bushings and go thru the same BS I went thru on the rear... and then feel I need to replace them later because they too suck!! If the Neatrix are plug and play I might just order up a set and wiat for them to arrive

(sorry for the rant!)

THANKS!

[RSTarga]

I've used the elephant racing ones as sold by our host and they are great! I used rubber not bronze

[KTL]

The poly rears are always a trial and error "trim to fit" affair. Otherwise you end up with terrible binding and squeaking. I agree that if you don't have some basic machining tools at your disposal, it's a hateful job. I hand fitted mine like you did. Yep, sand and sand and sand and sand away, trying to keep them round-ish and bind free when installed. Took a long time but they ended up working OK. Did you use any lubricant? I chose to use Energy Suspension's clear poly paste/snot/goop and it worked fine for my use- mostly fair weather except for the occasional rainy track day, and plenty of hard use on track lapping days.

That said, I am in the process of un-upgrading my car and I bought a pair of Neatrix/rubber to replace them. Funny little aside: I rebuilt my suspension years ago and replaced the crapped-out original factory rubber bushings with Neatrix. Worked great. Plug N play.

They're basically like factory rubber replacements. No squeaking because the rubber doesn't allow rotational movement. It deflects/twists instead. Simply clean up the spring plate tube, glue them on with superglue and squish them into the chassis with longer bolts and lubricant like synthetic grease or dishwashing soap.

The fronts are a different story. If I were you I wouldn't do the Welts in the front if you hated the rear. The opportunity for squeaking is much greater in front due to greater degree of misalignment potential, between forward and rearward A-arm bushings.

Rubber replacements had been a non-DIY replacement option up until recently, courtesty of Elephant Racing. Years ago I had mine reconditioned by SmartRacing because there was no other option besides complete new A-arms, or poly (which I didn't want at the time). If you want rubber, i'd suggest getting Elephant/Chuck Moreland's kit. He provides an install method and tool, great customer support.

Not to add insult to injury, but did you research this a bit before doing the rears? There's plenty of threads on here that curse the Weltmeister poly stuff due to poor fitment, and some threads who think they're great due to the cheap cost and ease of custom fitment (these are the fellas with easy machining access). Others rave over the Elephant Polybronze. Also a few cases of PolyBronze dislike, but that's mostly more of a design debate than performance. They have proven to have a pretty good track record, literally & figuratively.

[pete3799]

Neatrix fit fine for me. Slip them on and bolt them up.Done.

[john walker's workshop]

the rubber ones rock. the whole job takes considerable effort still, but nothing as evil as the weltmeisters.

[hessel1974]

I used the Neatrix bushings, but it was far from a bolt on replacement on my '71 911. I had to widen the inner diameter and make the outside a bit conical to fit the torsion cap. Not a big problem, but certainly not a bolt on exercise..... Same for a friend with a '73. Without anything done to the bushings there was no movement of the springplate.

Was I just lucky or does someone else had similar experiences???

[KTL]

Originally Posted by hessel1974

Without anything done to the bushings there was no movement of the springplate.

That's how the rubber ones work. The squish/compression of the bushing is so great that you can't move it by hand. The rubber twists and only the weight of the car or your floor jack is going to be able to move it. That's one thing that makes indexing the spring plate a much larger PITA with rubber bushings, simply because installing or removing the plate is a bit of grunt work. So you want to get it at the right angle the first time.

[hessel1974]

There was no movement with the weight of the car on the springplate. So way too tight.

[KTL]

Ah. Sorry, didn't pick up on that from your initial post. Yeah that's not what you're looking for. That'll ride WAAAAY worse than any crappy Weltmeister bushing.....

[Flieger]

Available through Pelican: Pelican Parts - Product Information: PEL-RSR-FRBSH

[ivangene]

Originally Posted by john walker's workshop

the rubber ones rock. the whole job takes considerable effort still, but nothing as evil as the weltmeisters.

John, I saw another thread where you asked a question about tyhe worth of changing out the factory ones (re:fronts, not rears) - what are your thoughts on just not disturbing the sh%$ and leaving the stock ones alone (ala no new bushings) and just upgrade the torsion bars and struts?

thanks for all the comments - yes I read a LOT of debate andin the end figured it couldnt be "that bad" besides I have a machine shop... for me it was a PITA but not so bad... my comment above was for the average guy thinking this going to be done at home with no support equipment - NO WAY (unless you like to sand for hours!)

lastly, those RS parts are nice, if I hit the lottery I will be order some!!

[KTL]

Originally Posted by ivangene

(unless you like to sand for hours!)

You are correct, that's exactly what I did! Not proud of it by any means.....

For the fronts, you could leave well enough alone if the bushings are still concentric with the A-arm tube. If the bushings show flow/deformation, you should really consider replacing them. Reason being is, as the bushing gets permanently deformed you experience torsion bar rubbing on the A-arm tube. The paint rubs off the bar and rust starts, then the bar breaks. Takes a long time for that to happen of course.

I'll admit my new bushings showed some slight rubbing on my new, larger torsion bars. The front bushings get loaded quite hard if you track the car at all. But even purely street cars can show this deformation from tens of years of load cycling

[Trackrash]

Maybe things are different now, but about three years ago I replaced all my 911's bushings with the "street" Weltmeister poly-graphite bushings.

They fit without machining and don't squeak.

They are tight, and some force is needed to seat them. I used their "plastic bushing grease" on the front and moly grease on the rear.

This is my second set on the rear. The first lasted over 20 years and never squeaked.

IMO the poly-graphites in the front are too stiff for a purely street driven car.

[ninelevenick]

No need to sand for hours if you have access to a drill press or lathe. See my DIY thread:

Polyurethane Bushing Fitment (Pics.!)

[wildcat077]

Ivangene,

Make your life a whole lot easier and get the Elephant Racing front arm bushings ... I just replaced mine last weekend and the tool Mr moreland supplies with his kit makes the job a breeze.

All you need is a short digital level,a 32 inch solid carpenter's clamp and some hand soap ...

Cheers !
Phil

[Flieger]

Originally Posted by ivangene

lastly, those RS parts are nice, if I hit the lottery I will be order some!!

BTW, they are cheaper than the Polybronze (and lighter too) when you factor in the low-friction mounts- the RSR ones come with spherical washers for the same effect.

[gregwils]

Originally Posted by ivangene

John, I saw another thread where you asked a question about tyhe worth of changing out the factory ones (re:fronts, not rears) - what are your thoughts on just not disturbing the sh%$ and leaving the stock ones alone (ala no new bushings) and just upgrade the torsion bars and struts?

I'll be interested to hear what John W has to say, but I can share my own experience. I am just wrapping up my Elephant Racing rubber control arm bushing project. Control Arm Bushing Refresh I thought the bushings looked pretty good. There was not much deflection, but my torsion bars already had rubbing wear.

I would recommend you pull a torsion bar out to evaluate. My guess is that your car and any other that are still running on the original rubber bushings have rub marks.

[88911coupe]

OK...getting a little confused here with some terms. It appears in some threads Weltmeister and Neatrix are used as if they are mutually exclusive, however my sheet that came with my Pelican order for Weltmeister rear spring plate bushings clearly refers to them being Neatrix. Am I missing something?

[Flieger]

I thought Neatrix was a brand like Weltmeister but maybe it is actually a trademark name for a polymer like Delrin is.

[88911coupe]

I "think" Neatrix refers to a material, but it may be a brand as well...like Kleenex. As I mentioned, my instructions from Weltmeister refer to them as "Neatrix".