noob here looking for 911

[bandit86]

hi there people, I'm Norm, and after dreaming of a porsche for years i think it's time. Just doing some research before buying. I want a 911, but undecided on the vintage. I love old cars, new cars and cars inbetween. I had old transams, new BMWs and an SLK230, currently have a 1970 Mercedes Uninmog 406.

So basically what I am out for is something that will jump out at me, cheap 911 from the seventies or 80s all the way up to 2003 or 4 (prices jump up). Saw a nice 01 non turbo and almost went for it, does anybody ever regret not getting the turbo? (stupid question i know but i love my license, want to keep it)

Also, mpg wise, can that be improved upon, I know it's an oxymoron but had to ask anyways

what years had the magnesium engines, heard those are to stay away from... are they?

[timmy2]

'73 down are getting more expensive due to collectability and rarity, '78 and up SC's and Carreras are nice for modding, restoring or daily drivers. The '74 to '77 are the mag engine years but are priced accordingly.(great candidates for backdating the look and adding bigger motors)
Read up on the different years and models here, there is a wealth of information available.
Good luck with your hunt.

Buy the '78 and up 930 turbo, you won't regret it...

[timchar]

Hello Norm, I've never been sorry for not getting a turbo. My 86 carrera goes plenty fast for me. I get about 16 mpg in town 26 on highway. That's a pretty wide range in years you are considering. I think you need to figure out if you want air cooled or not. I can't comment on the magnesium. Good luck in your search. Tim

[Dave Colangelo]

With that description you are all over the board. The older ones are VERY VERY different than the new ones. There are many different books on the matter that you may want to read first. But in my opinion it all boils down to one question, what do you want to do with the car. The first thing to consider is do you want a...
-Fun, nice weather weekend driver.
-Daily Driver
-Some thing to restore
-Key in and go car

Then there is the question of comforts,
The new cars have good AC, some have navigation, they have a smooth ride that you would expect form a modern sports car. They have power steering, ABS breaks, air bags etc. etc.

The older ones are a bit rougher, have a not so great AC if any at all, no Power steering (which I love), some dont have ABS breaks, the transmissions are a bit more rough around the edges when compared to the new ones (I also like this)

Now that being said price is also a serious question.
The market is soft now but is firming up, an SC (78-85(maybe 84 i dont remember)) can be had for in and around 10K in reasonable shape. The Carrera 3.2 that followed that can be had for in and around 15K and the 964 for a bit more than that. The prices are going up as people are taking note of how flat out fun these cars are.

In terms of your magnesium question, the 2.7L engine is the one you are talking about. It had a magnesium crank case and has been known to pull a head stud here and there. That being said, a well kept and good order 2.7 can be a great engine.

Many consider the 78SC, the 3.2 Carrera and, 964. and 993 to be the really rock solid 911's. They are fully galvanized, air cooled and a blast to drive.

from there you have 996 and 997's to chose from. i have no experience with them so I wont comment on them but I will say I am a bit of an air cooled purist.

You also have the older 911's my only qualm with them is that they are not galvanized, as I live in the north east this is a huge issue as many of the ones near me are all rusted out. If you can find a rust free one they are great cars.

Ill say this, I went for a drive recently where we had a 356 all the way to a 993 with the group, and every thing in between. In the windy roads of bear mountain NY the 356 was having no issue keeping up with us. Any Porsche is a good Porsche.
So here is what you should do, figure out what you want from the car first, once you post that people here will be better able to narrow your search down.

Regardless you are off to a good start.

Regards
Dave

[porwolf]

+1 what Dave said, everything.

[Hodgey]

Originally Posted by Scooter

All the good years.

1964-1977

....and the best years are 1987 up with the G50

[jwasbury]

Originally Posted by timchar

That's a pretty wide range in years you are considering. I think you need to figure out if you want air cooled or not.

Yes. The basic rule of thumb is that the 911 has become progressively more refined as the years past. My parents had an '01 (996 variant) cabrio. Absolutely a nice car and fast, but lacking in "soul" that the '86 targa they traded in had. That '86 targa was what hooked me on 911s. The feel and sound, the directness of the steering (no power assist), the cockpit interior with individual instruments (as opposed to modern dashboards with instrument "pods")...all of these elements combine to form a unique driving experience IMO. My opinion is that the more modern the 911, the less unique a driving experience it will deliver.

[mystro]

Last of the original 911's and most refined of 911 is the 87-89. At that time Porsche perfected the original 911 and used a more precise G50 transmission. Prices vary a lot by miles and condition. $25-$30k and can go to $40k for a super clean original car. This is the car that is on more posters and dream car callenders of the day.

There is no bad choice and most likely you will never lose money on these cars. The value can only go up. If money is no object I would go 87-89 for a clean 911 or if you don't mind more plastic on your cars, the 993 is the best of the modern looking air cooled cars.

Originally Posted by Hodgey

....and the best years are 1987 up with the G50

[McLaren-TAG]

The only thing I'd add is, do you enjoy working on your own car?

For me an unintended benefit of owning an 86 3.2 has been the satisfaction of working on the car and fixing and fine tuning things that on a newer 993, 996 or 997, I'd not even attempt.

[Paul K]

Norm:

Please add your location to your profile. That way we can help you better. It's all been said, but I suggest you drive several examples before deciding. My preference would be either a G-50 car ('87-early '89) or a 993 ('95-'98). Make sure you get a PPI whatever you buy.

Cheers,

Paul.

[bandit86]

The only thing I'd add is, do you enjoy working on your own car?

It's a love / hate relationship. While I don't mind maintenance or rebuilding engines my spare time is getting more precious every year. I gave away my last TransAm just because it was a pain in my butt

I don't want to spend much more than 20g., would love a turbo, no tiptronic, all else optional

Are turbo and non turbo engines generally identical internally, as in can they take a turbo without a rebuild? Asking in case I find a na car and later decide I want a turbo after all

[Rot 911]

Well if your upper limit is 20K you can exclude getting a turbo. For that budget I would suggest a nice 85-89 Carrera.

[hcoles]

3.2 G50 coupe with nicacil cylinders - you may have to rebuild depending but you will end up with a solid car you can drive for years, low miles doesn't mean the valve guides are good, the cost to purchase may not be relevant, if you can find a car that is mostly stock with all the parts there, I would say that is the goal. When you figure out what sort of use you have in mind as mentioned above then get back. It is hard to stay objective, take your time.

[tirwin]

I would also add that in your target budget, you should factor in how much money you want to spend on fixing things, mods or general improvements. I would also recommend getting Wayne's 101 Projects book and reading it thoroughly and spending a lot of time reading this forum.

The reason I say all this is that a year ago I bought my dream car and I thought then "it's perfect just the way it is". Fast forward to one year later and the car is in 1 million ziplock bags, I have taken over my wife's side of the garage and I'm knee-deep in a long list of little projects to make it "perfect".

So everyone starts out with the idea that they'll be happy with the car just the way it is when they buy it. My advice is that if $20k is your total budget, you should look at a car that is in the $15-16k price range and reserve the rest for when the fix-up bug bites. And trust me. It will.

You can get a VERY good quality car for that amount of money. That's what I paid for mine and it's an '83 SC with low miles (65k). The engine is very mechanically sound, the exterior paint is in great shape, and the interior was really just beginning to show it's age. I had some things I HAD to fix when I first bought it -- new ignition switch, new turn signal stalk, tires, headlight relays, full tune-up, sorting out some CIS issues, etc. The rest was mostly optional. And that's when the "while I'm in there sickness" starts.

The other piece of advise I'll give you is the same thing others already said -- that you need to consider the use. Mine is not a daily driver. I have a truck I use for that. My SC is raw and that's what I love about it. If you're going to miss not having a cup holder, look for something newer.

Good luck!

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by bandit86

hi there people, I'm Norm, and after dreaming of a porsche for years i think it's time. Just doing some research before buying. I want a 911, but undecided on the vintage. I love old cars, new cars and cars inbetween. I had old transams, new BMWs and an SLK230, currently have a 1970 Mercedes Uninmog 406.

So basically what I am out for is something that will jump out at me, cheap 911 from the seventies or 80s all the way up to 2003 or 4 (prices jump up). Saw a nice 01 non turbo and almost went for it, does anybody ever regret not getting the turbo? (stupid question i know but i love my license, want to keep it)

Also, mpg wise, can that be improved upon, I know it's an oxymoron but had to ask anyways

what years had the magnesium engines, heard those are to stay away from... are they?

What Dave said.

Let me add this: I was in the same boat a few years ago. So I started lurking here - I didn't even join until last summer, but I was watching, LOL. I also bought books. Peter Zimmerman's "The Used 911 Story" is a GREAT book for giving you the straight deal on these cars. Wayne Dempsey's "101 Projects for your Porsche 911 1965-1989" is a fantastic book to give you an idea about what sorts of stuff the car might need, and how easily you might do it yourself. This translates into an idea of how much it's going to cost to own the car. I also found Randy Leffingwell's "Porsche 911 Buyer's Guide" to be very helpful. Buying books, lurking here, and finding everything out that I could was very helpful in demystifying the whole business. And made me realize that I wanted a few things more than others.

1.) I wanted an aircooled car.
2.) I wanted a car with manual everything.
3.) I wanted the most powerful car I could get that was consistent with 1 and 2.
4.) I wanted to pay a reasonable price for a car in reasonable shape, because I want to drive the car.

So, in the end, all those factors led me to a 1985 Carrera.

Your priorities might lead you in a different direction, but knowledge is power, so go get some!

[timchar]

"You love your license and want to keep it", why are you so fixated on a turbo. My 3.2 will go double the speed limit, isn't that enough for you? I would get an SC or 3.2 with a sound motor. Some may even have rebuilt motors in your price range. Tim

[jsveb]

Read up as others suggest.
To put it short. With your budget and just based on your intro, I'd budget 20k, then buy a nice G50 >87 carrera 3.2
It is such a low maintenance lots of fun car.
It responds well to mods.
Good luck

[dienstuhr]

Buy the Zimmermann book and Leffingwell's Used 911 guide.

$40 worth of books is cheap insurance on a $20K investment and they will help you decide what generation 911 is right for you.

I would say that for $20K you could get:

- a rough longnose ('64-'73) car that needs work but if you did it yourself, could be a fun and interesting project. You would end up with a vintage-feeling sports car with classic longnose good looks.

- a very nice mid-year ('74-'77) car, somewhat more refined than the longnose but still pretty elemental and not overly fast.

- a nice SC ('78-'83) building on the refinement of the middie with more reliability and speed.

- a nice Carrera ('84-'89) with digital engine management, more refinement and speed than the SC, but still retaining a more vintage and raw feel than most other sports cars of the time. The later cars with G50 transmissions will likely be out of reach for the budget.

- a high-mileage 964 ('90-'93) might be barely in reach for your budget. Still air-cooled but much more modern feeling than the earlier cars with the addition of functioning a/c and power steering.

- 993's are out of your budget, as are all but the roughest Turbos. You might find a 996 for ~$20K but these are different beasts altogether - water-cooled and with styling that is a marked departure from the earlier classic look.

Good luck with the search and whatever you do, don't forget the PPI from a reputable independent shop before you buy.

Cheers

d.

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by timchar

"You love your license and want to keep it", why are you so fixated on a turbo. My 3.2 will go double the speed limit, isn't that enough for you? I would get an SC or 3.2 with a sound motor. Some may even have rebuilt motors in your price range. Tim

My turbo Audi can get me in trouble in a few seconds. And being a silver sedan of a very non-descript type, nobody pays any attention. But boost is highly addictive. It makes you fall in love EVERY TIME.

I am happy to have a normally-aspirated Porsche - I drive it with vigor, but if it had boost, I suspect that I would get into trouble.

I think the sentiment of wanting to keep one's license is a valid one, from my own experience.

[timchar]

Originally Posted by SilberUrS6

My turbo Audi can get me in trouble in a few seconds. And being a silver sedan of a very non-descript type, nobody pays any attention. But boost is highly addictive. It makes you fall in love EVERY TIME.

I am happy to have a normally-aspirated Porsche - I drive it with vigor, but if it had boost, I suspect that I would get into trouble.

I think the sentiment of wanting to keep one's license is a valid one, from my own experience.

Eric, I agree. There is nothing like the thrill of a turbo. I enjoy that as much as anyone. I recently went on a test run with a 997 turbo, PDK transmission. The guy stood on the brake revved to 5 K and then let off brake....WOW...I've never been flung back in my seat and felt that dropping feeling in your stomach. Exhilarating is putting it mildly. 0-60 in the 3 second range or so? Being realistic and practical, I have no need for a turbo. I would lose my license for certain. I've already had a few close calls in my 3.2. I drive very slow in town. Tim